416 Barret. New LR cannon

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Mystic Precision

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Just read a most interesting article on Barret's new proprietory cartridge, the 416 Barret. Built on a shortened and improved BMG case, it is supposed to launch a 400gr pill at 3250fps from a 29" barrel using 200gr of powder.

Apparent BC of this bullet is 0.989 and supposed to stay supersonic at 2500yds. Heard those claims before. Will have to play with the ballistic programs.

Of course, this will have dual military and civy markets. An easy retrofit for all those 50cals banned in CA and voila, a new LR cannon. Would also give the US forces a kinder gentler LR antimaterial cannon to use, again by changing all those Barretts in service.

The article indicated accuracy as decent for the bullet and case. Will be interesting to see how this one develops.

Same market as the 408 Chey Tac but with the influence and market acceptance, not to mention bucks of Barrett.

My guess is that the bullets are Lost River Tech (or whatever they are known by today). Solid machined brass with driving bands ie a Barnes Triple shock on steroids.

If you aren't broke shooting a BMG yet, this one may just be the ticket. Bullets will be just as difficult to get as will primers and brass BUT money would solve most issues.

Jerry
 
17 cal vs 416, close enough...:)

I have seen this type of ballistics before and will have to verify. The Chey Tac suggested data didn't work out. I wonder if this is also a bit optimistic.

Why I say this is that a picture of the drop chart shows 29 1/4 to 900yds, 34 1/2 MOA to 1000yds and 40 1/2 to 1100yds from a 100yd zero (Nightforce scope).

With about 6MOA needed to go each 100yds at that range, that doesn't agree with the projected BC and muzzle velocity. Just compare to your drop charts of say a 308. Now consider a muzzle velocity of 3200 to 3300fps.

My 7RM are taking just over 20min to get to 1000yds. Hard to imagine that my scopes are adjusting that far out of whack (they aren't, I checked).

Are marketing....maybe just a misprint and someone mixed in a 308 drop chart for the photo.

Jerry
 
Should talk to Bulletsmith, he is playing with the Chey Tac in central Alberta and front ignition and some interesting stuff. He has far more details having tried it and experimented quite a bit.
Rob
 
I saw this unit at the SHOT show.Nice looking round.It sounds impressive but I don't make any judgements before it's proven its self.Sounds interesting though.On the other side,I'm no fan of Barret rifles.
 
I too saw the beast at SHOT last weekend. I asked one of the guys there about it being sold in Canada, as it is not subject to the US 50 cal export ban. This guy did not too much about that, but it is always good to put the bug in their ear.
 
I think the big stumbling block is the actual rifle. With our stupid gun laws, types and variants are lumped together. Barrett may not be too well liked even if it is not a BMG (either export or import) so there will be those hurdles to overcome.

Then there is the price of everything. Our market is small. Our big dollar market is even smaller.

What if the primers are still banned? Based on a BMG case, without the primers not going very far.

Bullets, barrels, actions, stocks can all be readily sourced in Canada. Brass and Bullets shouldn't meet much restrictions in import. Powder is no problem. The weak link in all this is the primer.

Wonder how much powder a LR mag can ignite? 175gr???200gr???

Jerry
 
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I spoke at length to Ronny while in Vegas about this rifle, we are looking into the US governments stand on exportation. The thinking between us is that it should be ok, but until we have a bureacrats signed paper to that effect, no dealer contract can be signed.
The bullets are being produced by Barnes at this point, the brass is 50BMG shortened and necked down, which is where the fun part starts. The brass they had ay the show was headstamped 50 cal, but new production will be stamped 416 Barrett, so should get around trade restrictions.
I have a reamer already on order along with dies and bullets as this will be an easy conversion for my 50 cal rifles. Have some Lilja barrels being made up as well.
Jerry I agree that the 408 was maybe marketed optimistically, I am not sure that the 416 can live up to what the 50 can do either, but 1 can never have too many calibers anyway
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticplayer
...My 7RM are taking just over 20min to get to 1000yds...

Which works out to about two and a half feet per second (3 km/hr or 2 mph).

So, I guess you can just walk alongside the bullet and watch it's trajectory directly...
Click to expand...



__________________


groan...
good catch but the timing must have been off.

:p
 
mysticplayer said:
Wonder how much powder a LR mag can ignite? 175gr???200gr???

Jerry
Click to expand...

I've read of using 2grs of Bullseye as an igniter for a 250gr charge of Vihtavuori N165 in a .700 Nitro Express. The primer was a federal 215.
 
ATR, that will be interesting to keep an eye on. however, since this is designed primarily as a anti material rd, might still receive the nasty eye from the US. I am sure they will have concerns about northern 'terrorists' have access to 2500yds capable rds.

Time will tell. Glad that Barnes is making the bullet. With these two industry giants, there will be a better chance of success through availability.

I think that Barrett has the right idea. The US wants to phase out the 50BMG but still needs a LR hammer for the thick and heavy stuff that a soldier can use. I have heard enough to believe that the BMG does have long term affects on the soldiers using them.

a kinder gentler rd to the soldier but with the long range punch to stop or penetrate hardened targets.

The 338 Lapua has garnered a lot of interest lately due to needs to reach out to 1000yds and beyond. A great rd but not enough oomph for armoured stuff at distance (at least so the articles say).

The 408 Chey Tac was developed as that bridge. Unfortunately, it was plagued with a variety of issues so may not get very far.

The 416 Barrett will come with a factory backing it and supplying systems ready to go.

Big bonus, all those BMG Barretts in circulation would get a second lease on life. That is a huge savings in hardware. A cost switching to the 338 Lapua or any other rd would need. Big plus the Barretts are 'large capacity' semis which in the battle field, makes a difference.

So the US forces can keep using their BMGs and/or have a second 'upper' in a new cartridge if needed. The use of the BMG case is quite shrewd. No issue swapping over. Remember, the market is the military, not the civilian market. They don't have issues of reloading or saving brass or getting primers.

We will just have to adapt.

Biggest hurdle for the Can market are primers. Since they are still considered a BMG component, the US is likely to retain export restrictions. Can't make noise without that primer.

Time and politics will tell what actually happens. The 6.8SPC may not be the home run everyone once thought. Maybe, the forces will find a different way for the grunt to defeat hardened targets.

Maybe it will be a 25mm Barret instead.

LRC, there is a special Barrett issue on the newstands now. All you ever wanted to know and drool about Barretts in one place.

Jerry
 
I am thinking that the 416 Barrett will probably have a greater chance of making it, than the 408 did ,due to the 50 cal parent case. I like big guns so plan to build some anyway, just because I can. There can never be too many big bores in the safe.
I doubt that the 416 will eclipse the 50, but who knows. All of the info so far, not that there is alot yet, seems to be more reality than BS , hopefully Barrett has learned something from the Cheytac debacle.
There are other markets for primers, I have been working on several "non US" suppliers and it is looking promising, time will tell. Having 200000 primers on hand does not leave me in panic mode at this point anyway.
My hope is that other bullet makers get on the wagon, I may need to be talking to the Corbins .
 
Make any cartridge a standard military offering and the component manf will step up in very short order.

The 416 is interesting because the bullet is still large enough in diameter and length to stuff mean nasty stuff in it. At roughly 400gr, I am sure something that burns or blows up or smashes through very hard things will fit.

Maybe not as effective as a 50bmg, but way better then anything else commonly used today.

As to accuracy, that's an interesting point. From a LR clay pigeon shooters standpoint, 1.5 to 2.5 MOA is not exciting at all. However, when the impact is 15X as powerful, causes a pretty big impact crater which tend to make groups "smaller".

The role is anti material first, personnel second. Tanks and building are usually bigger then even the machine gun can group. Hitting anything 3 or 4 times and having that something crumble to bits is more effective then making a 4" hole at 800yds with 10shots.

Why worry about groups when you simple remove the entire target?

however, the inaccuracies of any platform is due in large part to the ammo used. Enough reports using match ammo in Barrets shows that it is capable of MOA accuracy at LR.

Well, a 20" group is enough when the object of desire is an apartment window or the front door of an armoured vehicle at 2000yds. Even on personnel, any hit is pretty effective.

Yes, the Canadians have some excellent gear and arguably the best at what they do. However, that is not how armies are made. The vast majority of grunts or civilians don't possess such skills. Having the ability to launch a lot of lead down range has been the focus of all military firepower since WWII. Seems to work.

The precision rifle and operator will always be important, actually increasing so. The need to really reach out and hammer something is becoming more an individual requirement then using a chopter or tank.

Where we go from here is in the hands of the forces that use this stuff. I just hope that enough has been learnt from all the over budgeted POS projects, that someone will do for the soldiers in the field instead of for their own wallets.

Jerry
 
The military aplication of a cartridge/rifle like this and wether it will be good or bad will come down to the mission/theater specific aplication in which the weaponsystem will be utilized, as to wether or not this is the best platform/caliber for that system time will tell. As far as us paper and other interesting target punching, based on the numbers Mystic posted for Velosities, Drag, and Range.....this shows alot of potential for what I intend to do with it, but more info would be great.:)
 
Why all the debate about a .416 Barret being used by the military? Thought I haven't heard otherwise, I'd be willing to bet the development of this cartridge was mainly intended for civilian sales.

With many states looking to ban .50 BMG from private ownership, perhaps Barret has seen the writing on the wall and decided to shift production to ensure that his firearms are legal for sale everywhere in the USA? Makes good business sense to me.
 
LRC, what we need is a lot of shots fired down range. Many projectiles fall way short of their marketing hype.

I think for LR hunting and plinking, the big 270 and 7mm bullets coming from Wildcat are where I would go. Ballistics have been shown in the field to be outstanding as is the consistent accuracy. We can get all the necessary components in Canada and don't need a second mortgage to build a rifle.

Apparently, a 120gr 6mm bullets is in the works. How's that for a LR deer sniper rd?

Ballistics are touching on the BMG too. Yes, way smaller bullet so no, you will not be taking out any Abhrams or knocking down concrete bunkers, but does that really matter?

Jerry
 
Mystic, You are 100% right on your info, but for my twisted mind yep:redface: , Needs to blow through a concrete brick at 2500m and turn it to powder!!! :D :D :D :D Sometimes Umpffff factor plays a role for sheer pleasure over balistic performance,:eek: and this round seems to have both and utilize less powder than a full blown .50.:) That is the apeal this cartridge has to me. It's kinda like Tim The Tool ManTaylor off home improvements when it comes to guns theory, but I think we all have a little of that in us.;)
 
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