43 mauser guns and 45/70 or 45/90 brass?

[H Wally]

Two questions here:

1) Could 45/70 or 45/90 brass be formed to 43 mauser? I the 45/70 can't be, since 45/70 brass is 7mm too short, but the base diameters of both are only 1mm less in diameter, which should be well within safe margins for ballooning out. 45/90 brass is actually only .5mm longer than 43 mauser too.

2) Could a Gew 71 or 71/84 bolt take a 45/70 or 45/90 rim? The 45/70 and 45/90 rims are 15.4mm while the 43 mauser rim is 15mm. Wondering if there is enough spare room on the Gew bolt face to take the extra .4mm rim diameter.

My sources for info are here:
45/70: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45-70
45/90: http://www.loaddata.com/members/search_detail.cfm?MetallicID=2696
43 mauser: http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/25482


I'm considering whether it makes more sense to modify 45/70 brass to fit a 43 mauser or rebarrel/rechamber a Gewehr to 45/70

 

[tactical870]

You can fireform 43 mauser from 348 win. I have some new 348 cases if you need them. 43 Mauser cases are also available in the US as well as 43 Spanish. I'd leave it as a 43 if I were you....

 

[mooncoon]

You can fireform 43 mauser from 348 win. I have some new 348 cases if you need them. 43 Mauser cases are also available in the US as well as 43 Spanish. I'd leave it as a 43 if I were you....

The 348 has a base diameter of .553 which is considerably oversize for 43 mauser and the 45-70 is .016" undersize but can be ballooned out to fit the chamber. Both are flat based shells which is not a problem in model 71 mausers but the 71/84 requires either a rebated rim to make space for the ejector or the ejector needs to be trimmed back to allow you to use a flat base shell. The guns will shoot with fire formed 45-70 shells but I don't think as accurately as with full length shells. The rim diameter of the 45-70 is not a problem I have shot them in mausers.

cheers mooncoon

 

[H Wally]

You can fireform 43 mauser from 348 win. I have some new 348 cases if you need them. 43 Mauser cases are also available in the US as well as 43 Spanish. I'd leave it as a 43 if I were you....

Hmmm - just looking at 348 dimensions. I guess the neck is removed in the trimming process eh? My worry would be with the cartridge base though.

Also, just taking my train of thought to it's last station, since both 348 and 45/70 have almost identical rim diameter (0.1mm difference) then theoretically 45/70 could work.

I was thinking about forming from 45/70 simply because I find perfectly good brass at the range on occasion and was thinking of what to do with it.

My main idea with a 45/70 conversion would be to ease the search for reloading equipment, molds, dies, brass etc.... but for the cost of rebarreling, I guess I could buy just about anything I needed

P.S. Of course, rebarreling would only be considered on a shot out sporter.

 

[tactical870]

I spent this afternoon doing my first barrel sleeve on an 11mm gras. She's 38 spl now......

 

[Andy]

45/70 brass works ok - the neck is very long on the 43 Mauser, so the shorter 45/70 brass is not a show-stopper and neither is the smaller casehead diameter (you will be using loads under 28K psi). I have not found it necessary to bevel the rim.

I did this once with a few rounds and then just bought 50 pieces of Jamison brass from "Mysticplayer".

 

[mooncoon]

Hmmm - just looking at 348 dimensions. I guess the neck is removed in the trimming process eh? My worry would be with the cartridge base though.

To repeat myself; you need to recheck your base dimensions. The 43 mauser is .516" and the 348 is .553". That requires more than a little bit of swaging before a 348 will fit into the mauser chamber

cheers mooncoon

 

[H Wally]

45/70 brass works ok - the neck is very long on the 43 Mauser, so the shorter 45/70 brass is not a show-stopper and neither is the smaller casehead diameter (you will be using loads under 28K psi). I have not found it necessary to bevel the rim.

I did this once with a few rounds and then just bought 50 pieces of Jamison brass from "Mysticplayer".

Haha - I'll probably just buy the proper brass from mysticplayer. Otherwise I'll spend my hole life figuring out "shortcuts" and never actually shoot the darn things! As I understand it, the 43 mauser was similar in strength to the 45/70 trapdoor springfield, so the loading can be used from the latter.... highly convenient if you ask me!

To repeat myself; you need to recheck your base dimensions. The 43 mauser is .516" and the 348 is .553". That requires more than a little bit of swaging before a 348 will fit into the mauser chamber

cheers mooncoon

Yep - pretty much my thought, just far more eloquently expressed.

 

[Andy]

Haha - I'll probably just buy the proper brass from mysticplayer. Otherwise I'll spend my hole life figuring out "shortcuts" and never actually shoot the darn things! As I understand it, the 43 mauser was similar in strength to the 45/70 trapdoor springfield, so the loading can be used from the latter.... highly convenient if you ask me!



Yep - pretty much my thought, just far more eloquently expressed.

The M71/84 is stronger than the Springfield Trapdoor and the 43 Mauser cartridge has more capacity than the 45-70 but a slightly smaller bore, so loads will have about equal pressure in the two cartridges.

Using Trapdoor loads is a fine approach, and that's what I use. Mine tend to like the long heavy (500gr) bullets over 30.0-32.0 grs of H4198. I have a custom 0.448" sizer for use with 45 cal bullets, but the RCBS 370gr mold drops a good bullet at about 0.446".

 

[cyclone]

Just a thought.......:

 

[John Sukey]

There is always www.buffaloarms.com for .43 mouser brass.

 

[al100]

I have 300 win mag, 348, and 358, all made into 11mm Mauser for both my 43's.
358 works great
300, and 348 need extractor work.
and I just got 20 bertram brass for $78.
I will stick to forming it.