.44 British Bulldog revival

GrimRX

GrimRX

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I've recently come into possession of a rather beat up Antique .44 (I think) British bulldog. As it really seems to hold no antique value (I highly suspect it was a knockoff/clone, no trademarks, no serial number other than one underneath the grip panels, no rebounding hammer, etc) I was wondering about the practicality of restoring and resleeving the barrel and cylinder to something like .380ACP?

Thoughts?
 
I have done a few of them into .22 Mag
Main thing is.. IF you are going to change it over it would be worth "Finding a Solid" Date or RCMP Antique letter for it.
Then you can mod it to be pretty much anything you want. And not worry about it.
I have COMPLETELY Modified everything on one including the frame , Over 40 hours of labor to do everything
But with the new Rules of Restricted coming out i can see this being well worth it for some ppl.
 
I would not worry too much about the barrel, they are all very thinly rifled.

Please check the back of the cylinder for a ELG mark, with or without crown and measure the bore. I have brass for those revolvers.
 
No ELG mark. No rebounding hammer. No rear sight channel in the top of the frame. No brass ejecting rod for the cylinder. It's definitely a knockoff, but also definitely a antique.

The barrel is a smoothbore at this point, lol.

I am pretty sure it's a .44 (bulldog, webley, etc)

Tried to upload pictures but I can't seem to get the picture small enough for CGN to like them.
 
GrimRX said:
No ELG mark. No rebounding hammer. No rear sight channel in the top of the frame. No brass ejecting rod for the cylinder. It's definitely a knockoff, but also definitely a antique.

The barrel is a smoothbore at this point, lol.

I am pretty sure it's a .44 (bulldog, webley, etc)

Tried to upload pictures but I can't seem to get the picture small enough for CGN to like them.
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You can't upload pictures here if you are not a team member.

Try https://imgur.com/ very easy to use.

Actually, you cannot assume that it is an antique unless you have proof, especially a lot of those Spanish copies or unknow makers without markings are not recognized as antiques. I once told this a guy who asked me, he got very angry but it is a fact. What you do after that is up to you.

By your description it is most likely Spanish made and therefore no antique.

Surprise us with pictures and I can tell you more.
 
I have a couple Iver Johnson Antique revolvers, they are not as your picture, both do not have the round barrel, they also have the engraving on the top of the barrel with markings on the cylinders, mine are 44 Webley, correct me if Im wrong but changing the calibre of a antique to a modern round makes it restricted or prohibited, also modern rounds have way more pressure than the round this was designed or capable of firing,
 
laurencen said:
I have a couple Iver Johnson Antique revolvers, they are not as your picture, both do not have the round barrel, they also have the engraving on the top of the barrel with markings on the cylinders, mine are 44 Webley, correct me if Im wrong but changing the calibre of a antique to a modern round makes it restricted or prohibited, also modern rounds have way more pressure than the round this was designed or capable of firing,
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Yes, it is not.

It looks like a Belgian Bulldog but in order to be antique it needs the ELG mark on the back of the cylinder with NO crown on top.

The cylinder is also fluted, so not so old.
 
laurencen said:
I have a couple Iver Johnson Antique revolvers, they are not as your picture, both do not have the round barrel, they also have the engraving on the top of the barrel with markings on the cylinders, mine are 44 Webley, correct me if Im wrong but changing the calibre of a antique to a modern round makes it restricted or prohibited, also modern rounds have way more pressure than the round this was designed or capable of firing,
Click to expand...

I was under the impression that changing the calibre would only make it prohib or restricted if you changed it to one of the specific calibres laid out in the regulations.
 
scianna54 said:
Yes, it is not.

It looks like a Belgian Bulldog but in order to be antique it needs the ELG mark on the back of the cylinder with NO crown on top.

The cylinder is also fluted, so not so old.
Click to expand...

You know of any books or reference manuals that I could try looking into?

Edit: Here was the thread I got that info from. It's the post at the bottom of the thread

htt ps://www.gunpartscorp.com/forum/hand-guns/hand-guns/geo-hutchison-british-bulldog-241218

Edit#2: And doing further research down this particular rabbit hole, I found a PDF excerpt from gun digest from a article called "When Bulldogs rulled" by a George J. Layman. In it it references the Ad from the 1884 E. C. Meacham catalog that shows a picture/diagram of a pistol that looks exactly like mine (and the picture provided) and says this about it:

"[This]... "American" British Bulldog has some interesting features as it is equipped with an almost identical cylinder pin and takedown latch as found on the Iver Johnson American Bulldog. Sold as an "american"-style British Bulldog, it is nevertheless supplied with a parrot beak grip. Compounding the confusion is that it mentioned it has a "Smith & Wesson" handle!"

It also mentioned that the manufacturers are unknown, lol. So yeah, I guess it's not a Iver Johnson, but unless they are lying about the date the catalog came out in, it looks like it's at least a antique, lol.

Downloadable PDF of the article: https://pdfcoffee.com/revolver-buldog-numero-1-pdf-free.html
 
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there is a interesting book the name escapes me but it has all versions of the bulldog revolvers, I will try to find my copy tonight and get you the author, Im thinking yours is lacking any marks that typically are found on the firearm
 
GrimRX said:
I was under the impression that changing the calibre would only make it prohib or restricted if you changed it to one of the specific calibres laid out in the regulations.
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not sure but I have a couple other antique revolvers, they will take 45acp and 38 S$W, both are prohibited though I would not consider modern rounds due to both age and pressure
 
I am surprised that yours does not have any marking. It is not an IJ for sure because those have markings as pointed out. Without marking=prohibited. There are many Bulldogs which are not antique just so you know. I know that there are many floating around in Canada where the owners believe they are antique but they are not.
 
scianna54 said:
I am surprised that yours does not have any marking. It is not an IJ for sure because those have markings as pointed out. Without marking=prohibited. There are many Bulldogs which are not antique just so you know. I know that there are many floating around in Canada where the owners believe they are antique but they are not.
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The cylinder face and back aren't well preserved (there is a fair amount of wear and obscurent on them) so it is possible that they might have had something on them in the past but are simply not able to be seen now.

The only markings are the serial numbers under the grip panels.

Yes, as far as I can tell they are, in fact, not IJ's, and the article I posted says they are of an "unknown manufacturer". I am placing some trust in the article simply because this particular style of bulldog seems to be pretty unique with it's combination of cylinder style, barrel shape, grip panel shape, cylinder rod holder and that little dongle right behind the trigger that seems to release the hammer when the hammer has been cocked.

I'm also assuming that you mean that without markings, the CFO would consider it prohibited as that is normally the way they verify the gun?
 
laurencen said:
not sure but I have a couple other antique revolvers, they will take 45acp and 38 S$W, both are prohibited though I would not consider modern rounds due to both age and pressure
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I'm pretty sure converting a Antique to .45acp would not render it prohib, after all, an incredible amount of Webley Mk1's were converted yet retain their status as antiques. I know both 45LC and .38SW are prescribed if an antique has been adapted to them though.

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-464/FullText.html
 
GrimRX said:
I'm pretty sure converting a Antique to .45acp would not render it prohib, after all, an incredible amount of Webley Mk1's were converted yet retain their status as antiques. I know both 45LC and .38SW are prescribed if an antique has been adapted to them though.

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-464/FullText.html
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The RCMP does not like changing prohibited to antique as well as changing to restricted (longer barrel in semi handguns) but they allow the adaption of newer calibers as 45ACP if the revolver was initially antique. But with your revolver that is not the case. In your case, the age of the gun cannot be verified. For example this revolver could have the ELG marking with a crown on top = not antique, without crown= antique.

As to not readable markings, I am sorry to say yes - please read what I wrote above, even though it looks old and worn doesn't mean that your revolver is antique. I have imported quite a number of those revolvers from the US and always avoided the ones where this is not absolutely clear. Others tried and had their revolvers confiscated. CBSA always opens the boxes.
 
GrimRX said:
The cylinder face and back aren't well preserved (there is a fair amount of wear and obscurent on them) so it is possible that they might have had something on them in the past but are simply not able to be seen now.

The only markings are the serial numbers under the grip panels.

Yes, as far as I can tell they are, in fact, not IJ's, and the article I posted says they are of an "unknown manufacturer". I am placing some trust in the article simply because this particular style of bulldog seems to be pretty unique with it's combination of cylinder style, barrel shape, grip panel shape, cylinder rod holder and that little dongle right behind the trigger that seems to release the hammer when the hammer has been cocked.

I'm also assuming that you mean that without markings, the CFO would consider it prohibited as that is normally the way they verify the gun?
Click to expand...

That dongle behind the trigger is your single action sear. They are present on most of the old, lower budget double action revolvers with the single action function (both British and American Bulldogs, Iver Johnsons, H&Rs, etc). Just an FYI If your hammer fails to hold in the cocked position, it's probably the spring on that sear.

I agree that it's hard to identify with no markings. I have an antique (with serialized letter) Iver Johnson American Bull Dog in 44. It has an octagonal barrel.
 
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