44 mag question

A

anorris

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Debert Nova Scotia
I am debating using a win model 94 with a 20 inch bbl for deer this year. I normally use a 243 but want something that doesnt get deflected in the bush easy. I noticed in my new spot i been watch theres alot of black bear signs and seen afew.

the spot has alot of bush and need something that will drop a bear at close range if needed. While still having a deer kill shot for 100 yards
 
I dont agree with Ormacheck years of hunting thick brushy wood, were the real big ones are have proven to me that a heavy slow flat bullet 44 mag, 454, 45-70, Marlin 450, 444 even a 12 slug really shine in those wood, 100 gr is easyer to deflect than 300 gr, big bullets have a way to drive their way to the beast, many bigs bucks have fallen to my 300 gr 44 mag... JP.
 
caramel said:
I dont agree with Ormacheck years of hunting thick brushy wood, were the real big ones are have proven to me that a heavy slow flat bullet 44 mag, 454, 45-70, Marlin 450, 444 even a 12 slug really shine in those wood, 100 gr is easyer to deflect than 300 gr, big bullets have a way to drive their way to the beast, many bigs bucks have fallen to my 300 gr 44 mag... JP.
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There is a lot to back up the statement by Ormachek.
I have seen the results of extensive testing done, various kinds of brush and bush, tested with many calibres.
The final word on the results of such tests that I have seen, show there was no winner, they all deflected.
 
Would the 4570 with a light load (1100 to 1300fps) be much different in recoil compared to the 44mag. 4570 rifles weighs a little more than a 44 mag and the difference in bullet weight would be considered but the volicity would be about the same. i have shot a few boxes of the remingtons all purpose loads in the 4570 and the recoil was very mild in my guide gun. I think they were listed around the 1300fps in 400g. What about a light load with 300g bullet around the 1200-1300fps.

Keith
 
From my handgun reloading and shooting I'd suggest that a 45-70 loaded down to .44Mag velocity and with both using 300 gn bullets that the 45-70 will be noticably lighter in recoil due to the much lower peak pressure. The energy will still be there but the lower pressure will accelerate the bullet slower and more evenly along the barrel length for more of a "THUMP!" than the "CRACK!" of the higher pressure .44Mag.

The basis for this is how my revolvers feel shooting .38Spl at 125gn vs my 9mm's also shooting 124gn rounds. The 9mm max pressure is much higher and it certainly shows up in the gun as more of a sharp smack to the hand vs the softer thump from the revolver.

Looking at the Hodgon releading center data it seems to confirm this. A max power .44Mag moving out at 1450 to 1470 fps has a max pressure of 38,000 CUP. Meanwhile the low end of the 45-70 loads listed for 300gn bullets is up at 1800'ish fps but only around 20,000 CUP. I'd suggest that such a 45-70 load would feel very soft out of a guide gun but at the same time it's still pushing that same weight of bullet faster than the max load .44Magnum is reported to be doing.
 
I dunno, I have otherwise identical rifles (Handi-rifles) in 45-70 and 44 magnum, and 500S&W. All can be loaded with 300 grainers (330 in the case of the 500). Recoil in the pistol calibers is distinctly lower even when velocities are the same; it makes sense when you realize that they're burning a lot less powder per shot - having 60 grains of powder exiting at 5,000fps (once the bullet is out of the way) generates a lot more recoil than 25 grains


BCRider said:
From my handgun reloading and shooting I'd suggest that a 45-70 loaded down to .44Mag velocity and with both using 300 gn bullets that the 45-70 will be noticably lighter in recoil due to the much lower peak pressure. The energy will still be there but the lower pressure will accelerate the bullet slower and more evenly along the barrel length for more of a "THUMP!" than the "CRACK!" of the higher pressure .44Mag.

The basis for this is how my revolvers feel shooting .38Spl at 125gn vs my 9mm's also shooting 124gn rounds. The 9mm max pressure is much higher and it certainly shows up in the gun as more of a sharp smack to the hand vs the softer thump from the revolver.

Looking at the Hodgon releading center data it seems to confirm this. A max power .44Mag moving out at 1450 to 1470 fps has a max pressure of 38,000 CUP. Meanwhile the low end of the 45-70 loads listed for 300gn bullets is up at 1800'ish fps but only around 20,000 CUP. I'd suggest that such a 45-70 load would feel very soft out of a guide gun but at the same time it's still pushing that same weight of bullet faster than the max load .44Magnum is reported to be doing.
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keith mokry said:
Would the 4570 with a light load (1100 to 1300fps) be much different in recoil compared to the 44mag. 4570 rifles weighs a little more than a 44 mag and the difference in bullet weight would be considered but the volicity would be about the same. i have shot a few boxes of the remingtons all purpose loads in the 4570 and the recoil was very mild in my guide gun. I think they were listed around the 1300fps in 400g. What about a light load with 300g bullet around the 1200-1300fps.

Keith
Click to expand...


Since the 45/70 was introduced as a black powder round. And I have never seen it go above 1400 fps from either my guide gun or sharps. That said I too have problems that don't allow me to use 1800 fps loads with a 400 gr bullet. My hunting round for my guide gun is a smokeless powder and a 405 gr bullet with a speed of 1300 to 1400 fps. I have seen what it can do against water jugs and other simulated targets. I have no fear that it would not be enough for any game in canada at an intelligent range.

And the recoil is much less. The slower the round the lower the felt recoil. At least that is my experience.

That said, I keep remembering reading somewhere the slow large bullets do less damage than fast light bullets. Meaning the meat is good almost up to the wound channel. Don't know if this is true.
 
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