44 spl, tight cases

sisiphunter

sisiphunter

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Hello guys,

I've been reloading for a few years now and always used once fired brass that I kept from my factory ammo, this always worked great. Now I bought a bag on 44 spl, Winchester brass, for use in my Marlin lever. Wanted to use something a little different with reduced loads for my son. Like I say first time I ever bought (or loaded) new brass.... First sizer die (Lee - non carbide) well lubed was very tight....Second sizer to flare the mouth would not flare. It was so tight that it just would not flare at all....I reamed out the mouth a bit and the bullet will seat if I'm careful about it. I have shot some test loads and they worked fine. I have not had a chance to try sizing these once fired brass yet, but is this normal for new brass to be very tight and hard to size???

Thanks, Matt
 
I have been reloading for a number of years in different calibers.

I have never noticed any difference between new brass and once fired. If there was a difference it must have been very minor.
 
The difference on these was very noticable. Like I say the #2 die would not even begin to flare the mouth. The only other straight rim case I load is 44 mag, so I know what is suppossed to happen. These just will not flare. I can still seat the bullet, but I would rather them flare as is proper. Matt
 
If your die is set to flare your .44 Magnum cases, it won't flare the .44 Special ones without being adjusted, as the cases are 0.10" shorter.
Regards, DaveF.
 
Yeah I adjusted the die for the 44 spl....I pulled the pin out as well to make sure that it wasn't just bottoming out and there is plenty of clearance in the bottom of the case.
 
In my experience with the Lee .44 Mag flaring die and 44 Sp. brass you need to find a fine thread bolt that matches the adjustment knob on the die. I can't recall the size just now but its a common size. 5/8 fine or something like that...

Lee does sell a set that works for both but no one stocked it when I was looking. Could be a good excuse to pick up a set of carbide dies if you can find them.

As far as them being tight in the die it may just be that you have a fairly tight chamber that doesn't allow fired brass to stretch much. Should give better brass life if thats the case. I'm betting that once you fire your reloads they will size as easy as your other cses or even easier if you are using reduced loads.
 
If you are using dies that are labelled .44 Special and .44 Magnum, you should not be experiencing such a tight fit on your sizing die (you are using lube, aren't you?), and your expander die should be nicely flaring the mouth. If your die set is .44 Magnum only, then it is most likley that you cannot flare the case mouth, nor will you be able to crimp the bullets.
If it is labelled for .44 Special, you should be directing your questions at Lee Precision, as it doesn't sound right for new brass.
 
Well, I did another batch last night. Did some more new brass and the now once fired brass. Big difference. The once fired went much smoother in the #1 and will just begin to flare now....The still new brass still very tight in the #1 and just laughs at the #2.......The dies are for 44 mag, though of course I adjust everthing down to fit where needed....I cannot crimp, but bought a $5 Lee crimp die in 44 spl for that. And I have tried 2 types of lube, the Lyman spray stuff and the Lee tube, both give same results....I just like using the spray better, easy to use and rinses off easy....

I will be interested to see how the brass is to size after 2 firings now....
 
I'm completely lost on this thread.
The 44 mag/44Special dies come with a washer to use to make up for the two different length of cases.
If you don't have the washer, why can't you just adjust the die, to where it would be, if you had a washer in between?
I have never seen a flaring die that could not be adjusted to give any amount of belling desired.
I just can not fathom that minute differnces in case length will effect, or prevent, flaring.
It sounds like you are not using the adjustment on the die.
Are you trying to adjust the flare by just adjusting the die in the press?
 
While I am somewhat lost as well, I am still not sure whether or not he is using a combination .44 special and .44 Magnum die set, or not. Despite some comments, not all .44 magnum sets can be adjusted to bell the cases on shorter .44 special.
I have never seen a die set that came with washers to help adjusting between magnum or special, although I know that they are aftermarket purchases.
On the Lee die set, you can only adjust the belling by screwing in the die. The flaring stem, on most sets, is fixed as it is part of the Powder Thru feature. So, if you don't have the combination set, you might not be able to bell the shorter cases.
There should be no difference between sizing new cases and once fired.
 
Al-Sway said:
While I am somewhat lost as well, I am still not sure whether or not he is using a combination .44 special and .44 Magnum die set, or not. Despite some comments, not all .44 magnum sets can be adjusted to bell the cases on shorter .44 special.
I have never seen a die set that came with washers to help adjusting between magnum or special, although I know that they are aftermarket purchases.
On the Lee die set, you can only adjust the belling by screwing in the die. The flaring stem, on most sets, is fixed as it is part of the Powder Thru feature. So, if you don't have the combination set, you might not be able to bell the shorter cases.
There should be no difference between sizing new cases and once fired.
Click to expand...

I guess the die makers must have changed, then. I have both 357 and 44 mag, RCBS dies, purchased about 1980 and each set came with a washer. The washer is the same thickness as the difference in length betwen the 38 special and 357 and the same with the 44.
No need to change adjustment of a die when interchangeing, just use the washer with the shorter cases.
 
My RCBS 44 mag/special set just has enough adjustment to do either case, I'm a bit confused by this thread too.

When he says "pulled the pin out as well to make sure that it wasn't just bottoming out and there is plenty of clearance in the bottom of the case" it sounds like he's trying to flare with the sizing die... but he says he's using the #2 die, which I assume is the second die you use, which is the flare die... but I don't know what pin you can pull out?
 
Sorry for no reply lately, busy at work for a couple days.....

Sorry I have confused some of ya. My die set is 44 MAG, but I am wanting to load 44 spl. I have loaded a number of rounds so far and no huge problems, other than the 44 spl cases when new out of the box are very tight in the #1 sizer die.

Now, I generally de-cap my brass first, no sizing just a decapping pin. Then I lube (spray stuff, Lyman I believe). My set has no washer for 44 spl. I then set my #1 die, sizing die. On the new brass this is very tight, but it will go. Now since 44 spl and 44 mag are the exact same brass other than length of case, the # 1 should not make a difference, all you are doing is sizing the brass to the right dimensions, then trimming....(yes, I know pressures are different, etc, but brass dimensions are essentially the same, given length.)

Next I trim and clean primer pockets and all that fun stuff. Then, place my #2 sizing die, or maybe should be called a flaring die into my press. i adjust the entire inside part down.....this moves the flaring bell and decapping pin lower. This would account for the shorter case length, or give a huge flare on a 44 mag brass. It is at this point my main concern begins. My once fired 44 spl brass almost flared, you cannot see it, but can feel a little bit. The new, never fired brass will not flare at all.

Earlier I said I removed the pin. By this I meant the small decapping pin from the end of the insert on the inside of the #2 die. The reason I did this was so I could see in through the flashhole to see if the flaring bell/decapping pin was too long and bottoming out in the bottom of the 44spl brass. It is not and there should be plenty of clearance.

From here on out, no problems, can seat bullet fine, crimp (with a seperate Lee 44 spl crimp die. I am just curious about why I cannot flare the new brass. I can still get the 180gr Hornady XTP to seat but it would be easier to have the flare there. Now keep in mind all of my 44mag brass has always been once fired from factory ammo, all of these worked fine, no problems with anything there. Just the new Winchester 44 spl brass.

Thanks again for all of the responses. I will be working but will have a chance now to check the forum. Thanks, Matt
 
I thought I was confused before!
Who ever saw a flaring die with a decapping pin?
You haven't told us in plain English, so I have to ask. Do you have a three die set?
The first die is to size and decap the case.
The second die is the flaring die.
The third die is the seating die.
It sounds like you are trying to flare with the sizing die.
 
There is no flaring bell inside the die with a decapping pin... I agree that it sounds like you're trying to flare with a sizing die. I guess somehow this worked with 44 mag?
 
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