45-70 and new powders

phishroy

phishroy

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Ok, well im toying around with some new powders for my 45-70 and im looking for some info’.
Im finding it a bit challenging but i do like challenges.
Couldn’t find any helpful info on the hodgdon website and my lyman book is a bit short of info as well.
Here are the powders i have on hand that i would like to experiment with:
BL-C2
H-380
IMR4227
IMR7625
IMR 4756
I know these aren’t the ideal or go-to powders for the 45-70 but i would like to find out how they would perform in my guide gun.
The bullet i would like to use is a 420 grain 3 lube groove bevel base.
i Also have a ranch dog 350 grain i could try as well.
Your input is appreciated if you have used these powders in your 45-70.
Thanks.
 
phishroy said:
Ok, well im toying around with some new powders for my 45-70 and im looking for some info’.
Im finding it a bit challenging but i do like challenges.
Couldn’t find any helpful info on the hodgdon website and my lyman book is a bit short of info as well.
Here are the powders i have on hand that i would like to experiment with:
BL-C2
H-380
IMR4227
IMR7625
IMR 4756
I know these aren’t the ideal or go-to powders for the 45-70 but i would like to find out how they would perform in my guide gun.
The bullet i would like to use is a 420 grain 3 lube groove bevel base.
i Also have a ranch dog 350 grain i could try as well.
Your input is appreciated if you have used these powders in your 45-70.
Thanks.
Click to expand...

4227 is an old, old powder for the 45-70. A very early edition of Lyman's handbook of cast bullets, shows for a 400 grain bullet in the 45-70, 20 to 27 grains of 4227. The 27 grains, shown as a maximun load, gives 1470 fps. This is at least as high a loading as the present factory loads.
It looks very strange, but this is what is in the book.
With a 500 grain bullet, they show a maximum load of 4227 as being 35 grains and a velocity of 1615 fps!
 
thank you for the info'. can you have a peak in the book if they indicate anything about using Dacron?
im assuming so since 20 grains of 4227 seems less than 1/3 of the case.
 
The Lyman book says nothing about using any type of filler. They use none.
From my own experiences with a filler, I can't really say if it does any good or not. I have a good low power variable on my 1895 Marlin and have been doing quite a bit of tesing different powders and charges for accuraccy.
A 1.6 cc Lee scoop holds 22.5 gains of 4227. I charged five rounds with this, backed by a good weather seal dacron? type filler. The 100 metre group with a 405 grain bullet was just over one inch, so I was happy. I have since fired several of the same loads, some with the backing, some with nothing. There appears to be no difference in whether a backing is used, or not.
The same 1.6cc scop holds only 14.4 grains of Unique. My best group with that was 4 under an inch, with one out to about 1.3 inches. Hey, I'm not a bench rest shooter and I blame those that go out on my shooting. That group was with no filler. I am mostly using 420 grain bullets and they have never been as accurate with light loads as was the 405. Most likely due to different alloy and/or size.
I have found the 45-70 to be the most forgiving of any rifle I have loaded for, as regards to amounts of powder used, that group well. I have used six different kinds of powder, plus one or two of them in both makes, Hodgdon's as well as IMR, in very widely different amounts of powder. Plus, I don't have any 3031 to try, but some of the most experienced reloaders on here say 3031 is the best powder for heavier loads.
Without having tried 3031, I consider my best powder for medium or heavy loads, is 4895, either variety. 50 grains, with the 420 bullet, was very accurate, but five shots from the bench would make my head ache. I couldn't really see any difference in accuracy with 4895, from a low of 40 grains to a high of 50.
I usually use standard pistol primers, and my best groups have been with them.
 
You've hit on 5 powders that are not usually used in the 45/70 and for a reason, they would be of use as reduced load powders but the 2 ball powders don't do well in reduced loads. The other 3 powders are basically pistol powders,which could be used for reduced loads.My Lyman Cast bullet book shows only 4227, from 22 to 30 grs. with the 322gr. Gould Hp bullet, with some dacron over the powder.
 
Ben, you probably have a newer lyman cast book than mine. Mine says nothing about backing.
Does yours have this page on Hodgdon's powders?
Interesting to see they list such powders as H570 and even 50MG, for the 30-06.
LYMAN.jpg
 
H4831 said:
Ben, you probably have a newer lyman cast book than mine. Mine says nothing about backing.
Does yours have this page on Hodgdon's powders?
Interesting to see they list such powders as H570 and even 50MG, for the 30-06.
LYMAN.jpg
Click to expand...

hey, wow, this is great info'. thanks for posting.
 
I've not seen that list before, looks old as it has H-240 data...My Lyman Cast bullet Handbook is no3 and shows this about the 4227 loads "designates the use of 1/2gr. dacron wad, 5/8" squareX1/4" thick over the powder". You are right of course, they never used to recommend any kind of fillers.
 
The bestest cast powders I've used in the 450 Marlin(almost twin to the 45-70) are IMR3031, IMR4198 and SR4759 for full or almost full power loads. Only for the lighter practice loads do I use 700X and SR7625, relativly fast powders. For the full and mid power stuff I think you'd be hard pressed to find a powder capable of giving any real ballistic advantage with 300-400gr slugs but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try. I've also used 4227 and It'll work well but after I tried 1000's of shots with other proven powder/load combinations I just figured why bother. The new Lyman manual (49?) has a LOT of data for the 45-70 using cast. By the way thanks for the lube, just arrived last week still have to get out to give it a try.BB
 
big boar said:
The bestest cast powders I've used in the 450 Marlin(almost twin to the 45-70) are IMR3031, IMR4198 and SR4759 for full or almost full power loads. Only for the lighter practice loads do I use 700X and SR7625, relativly fast powders. For the full and mid power stuff I think you'd be hard pressed to find a powder capable of giving any real ballistic advantage with 300-400gr slugs but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try. I've also used 4227 and It'll work well but after I tried 1000's of shots with other proven powder/load combinations I just figured why bother. The new Lyman manual (49?) has a LOT of data for the 45-70 using cast. By the way thanks for the lube, just arrived last week still have to get out to give it a try.BB
Click to expand...

Ive got 3031, 4759 and 4198 on hand and they do work nicely but I just wanted a bit of a challenge to try and load my 45-70 with some other powders I have on hand that are collecting dust.
Their no good if they just sit there staring at me so I figure lets try and find out if I can use any of them in my 45-70 as a challenge.

Your welcome in regards to the bullet lube. let me know how you like the red dragon.
 
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