45-70 goes to the range

got to go

got to go

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This was my first real range trip for this gun. The very first time the sights came lose after about four shots, so I'm not counting that. Perfect day for shooting. Clear, warm, no wind. "Perfect" My primary reason for being there was to sight in my 300 Win mag that I have just put a new scope on and I have switched over to Barnes 180 gr. TSX bullets, so I'm working up a bunch of new loads, After that was finished for the day I moved onto my "Mountain Buffalo" rifle. I have loaded up a bunch of reduced loads for it so that I can have some fun without getting beat up so badly.. Unique and 2400 was the answerer for me. All I can say is "WOW IS THAT GUN FUN" It came in pretty quick at 25 yds. When I went to 100 yds. Things got strange. I got 7 shots in a 12" vertical sting. Plus the two shots on the first target that made me think I should put up a fresh target. Two factors to consider are two different loads of 2400 with 1gr; difference. Plus the fact that was after about 3 hours shooting a fairly heavy recoiling rifle.. It was starting to get hot outside and I was getting tired. Would anyone have any idea why I was getting this vertical string ? I suspect there is a simple answer. I think this rifle is going to be a shooter when I get this figured out.




 
I'd say it was the toilet paper holder to blame. What ???? is that = please explain - details.

Is that a NEF or H&R ?
 
I take it you are referring to the rifle. Started life as a 45-70 H+R Handi-Rifle. I bought a Buffalo Classic stock from http://gunstocksinc.com/ which comes as semi Inletted plain walnut that I thought was quite nice. I formed the cheek rest with a belt sander and finished it with a palm sander Laugh2 Stained the wood with a bit of light walnut stain and finished it with about 7 coats of TruOil then knocked off the shine and a number of coats of Johnston Floor wax. The Butt cover came from Bufflo Arms in the States. I added about 3/4" of high density foam to their foam and made a Non-Mercury recoil reducer. My Mercury replacement was a Oiling tube from a Lee Enfield filled with #9 shot and some sort of oil I had in the garage. I think it may have been Hydrolic Fluid, I'm not sure now. Not quite full with about a 1/4" air gap It's about as close to mercury as I could come. The rear sights is a Williams FP Receiver sight with target knobs and the front now a Lyman 17AHB globe sitting on a .100" high Marbles ramp. A bit different than the one in the picture. Shoots great now except for the vertical stringing ???????????????
 
I take it you are referring to the rifle.
Click to expand...
Was the homemade recoil reducer I thought looked like a toilet paper holder - sorrry - a bit cheeky. Good 4u being inventive. Can't guess about the stringing unless that reducer is heavy enough and doesn't return to the same place shot to shot. Accuracy gremlins are hard sometimes to discern. Nice project - good luck.
 
Nice rifle!
I have one as well.

How did you mount the receiver sight?

Also to me the target suggests... Someone has a flinch.
As in anticipating recoil and dropping the muzzle before pulling the trigger. Not uncommon with heavy recoil rifles or after a day of shooting other rifles.

Let someone else shoot it or strap it down to a bench rest.
Or simply shoot it first on the next day out to the range.

Or something is loose with the receiver sight.

I had similar Williams receiver sight on a Winchester 30/30 and forgot to lock the vertical adjustment... Which resulted in my target looking the same.

It's a single shot so the recoil reducer should have no effect on where the next shot goes.
 
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The horizontal is actually very good. I suspect something is loose in the stock or changing rear sight-wise. that is alot of vertical. Another possibility is barrel heat is causing it to change dimensions. Strictly speaking, that is not a target rifle and barrel heat can cause changes in dimensions, particularly in non stress-relieved steel, but for that to manifest in near perfect vertical stringing is unusual but not unheard of.
 
Was this from a bench??? Where was the forestock on the bags, hopefully not the barrel on the bags or there is your answer right there. I would try resting the gun closer to the hinge pin on the bag next time or even holding the forestaock and resting your hand on the bags much like a springer air rifle shooter.
 
Another trick with the handy rifles is to shoot a few rounds with the forestock off.

Palm support under action.

If there is any big change then chances are the forestock is rubbing somewhere.

Careful when you open to reload as the barrel might want to pop off. ;)
 
I have a 30-30, and you'd swear that your grouping was from my gun. Doing a little research on the subject and it seems that there is one inherent flaw with the design. The barrel is held to the hinge pin and rotates (to open on that axis) on a hook welded to the barrel. The forestock is used to keep it in place. On the net, folks have written about the use of an O Ring around the threaded receiver for the forestock. I'm looking at something else...we'll see though.
 
In my experience the O Ring or washer trick can work but so does fitting the forend better.

But before taking a grinder to the wood, try shooting without the forend on first. Then add add the washer and try again.

Also some rifles have such issues while others do not.

Perhaps it's a matter of the old adage of never buy a car that was built on a Monday morning or a Friday afternoon. ;)
We are after all talking about Remington and Marlin here for the newer models.
 
Ok, I took a close look at my rifle and found that the forestock, when tightened, was very tight against the barrel. Secondly, the stock fit very tight against the barrel stud AND at the fulcrum point against the receiver (that plastic piece). Two very distinct pressure points. To resolve the issue I did the following:

1) I determined that the plastic piece serves no other purpose other than hold the barrel reasonably snug to the pivot point. This piece is a typical hardened plastic, and is very brittle therefore it will not tolerate much stress.

2) I removed this piece (two wood screws) and trimmed approximately 1 mm to 2 mm of the forestock with my table saw and re-stained the exposed wood.

3) I noted that the stock would fit rather loosely with the screw and the forestock would shift against the rather generous diameter hole (for the stud). To center the stud into the hole, I cut a 30-30 casing from the shoulder approximately 0.790". This would now serve as an insert as it fit snugly around the stud and a nice friction fit into the forestock hole.

4) To relieve the forestock pressure on the barrel, I put an o-ring around the stud and tightened.

The result is that the barrel, save for the forestock being connected to it, is completely free floating and the pressure against the receiver is gone. There is a slight wobble to the barrel when I open it, but it opens and closes freely and effortlessly. I will take back to the range and test the results. I will post the results (if I remember). People say that the rifle is a hunk of junk, to which , after looking at the rather rugged and simple design, I would debate. The judge however will be to see how it shoots now, and yes, i do intend on heating the barrel up a bit.
 
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