Ok, I know that this is probably a stupid question, but I want to ask to make sure that I do not try something dangerous. I am getting an NEF SB1 45/410 combo shotgun, and it has a 3" chamber. I know that a 4/10 operates around 14000psi and that the 45 Colt is about the same. I know that 45/70 rounds are around 24000 to 28000 for standard pressure loads. After typing that out, I am leaning towards this not being a bright idea, but what about a reduced charge under the round? Our would it just be best to just shoot the 45 Colt rounds and use the 45/70 brass to make shot shells?
45/70 in 45 Colt/410 combo gun?
- Thread starter sarcastech
- Start date
vagrantviking
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- High River, Alberta
Stick to the rounds that the gun is marked for. The 45-70 shells would probably work as shotshells but the groove diameter of the 45 colt and the 45-70 differs by 5 thousandths of an inch or more. Pressures would be be be unpredictably high with the oversized bullet.
If you were an experienced handloader and wanted to monkey around with finding dies and loads to use smaller bullets in the longer case something might be possible but you would still probably be able to get the same preformance out of the 45 Colt case.
If you were an experienced handloader and wanted to monkey around with finding dies and loads to use smaller bullets in the longer case something might be possible but you would still probably be able to get the same preformance out of the 45 Colt case.
Thanks!!
I appreciate all of the factual information given, as well as the smart @$$ comments that people are SO GENEROUS WITH
And now that I have looked, 45/70 is .458 and 45 colt is .454......so it is actually only .004 over. Who's the idiot now 
I always think it is better to ask than to blow myself up.
I appreciate all of the factual information given, as well as the smart @$$ comments that people are SO GENEROUS WITH
And now that I have looked, 45/70 is .458 and 45 colt is .454......so it is actually only .004 over. Who's the idiot now I always think it is better to ask than to blow myself up.
Hey Curt, since you are in Winnipeg, want to be standing beside me with the camera when I try????
ps....I am not going to try, this was a theoretical exercise
Hey Curt, since you are in Winnipeg, want to be standing beside me with the camera when I try????
ps....I am not going to try, this was a theoretical exercise
My camera has a pretty good zoom feature
Always best to ask. I fudged up a few weeks back, and made some 45000psi 45 acp loads (normal is 21000psi). So maybe we can both blow up some guns together
I always think it is better to ask than to blow myself up.
So, you ask then risk blowing yourself up?
.004 over? .005 over? It does not matter. This was covered in your PAL course/examination. 45/70 should not be chambered and fired in either .45 colt or .410. Suppose a whole bunch of dumb asses or evil dudes told you it was OK and they did it all the time? Suppose you tried your hypothetical/theoretical experiment? Whose fault would it be? Who would be the idiot?
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Turkeyslayer 1300
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Russell, Ontario
What does it say on the gun if it says .45colt/.410 3-inch guess what thats what your supposed to fire in it. Why do people wanna try all these crazy things?
vagrantviking
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- High River, Alberta
I'm pretty sure most 45 pistols are .451 or .452 and 45-70 starts at .457 so .005+.
Maybe this crowd is just like that.... OR maybe you're asking for the type of response that you get by the alias that you use. Could there be a correlation there?
Maybe this crowd is just like that.... OR maybe you're asking for the type of response that you get by the alias that you use. Could there be a correlation there?
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
It's your face. However, it's a moot point; .45-70 won't even chamber in a .45 Colt without a hammer (see what happens when you try that), the case and rim are significantly larger in diameter.
Thanks for all the responses guys, like I stated in my post, when I saw it on paper it didn't look as good as it did in my head. Just curious, and like my screen name says, I am very sarcastic and have very thick skin, so dish it out if you can take it I just think its funny that some people take the time to be snotty and say things like "that was covered in your pal...... I am asking because I do NOT know everything, but this seemed like the best place for that question to be answered.
To give everyone the background on WHY I was asking, is that a 45 Colt has an OAL is 1.6" and the gun I have has a 3" chamber. I have read that combo guns accuracy with the pistol rounds was somewhat lacking due to it having to fly about 1.4" before it engages the rifling. What I was thinking is putting a .454 bullet on the top of a case that would give the cartridge an OAL ~3" so that the bullet does not have to travel as far, improving the accuracy theoretically. A 45/70 case is 5mm short of 3" and CAN be chambered in a 410 chamber, as multiple people on this site have used them for shotshell casings. I thought with a reduced charge in the larger case, somewhere in the 16-18000psi range, would give me somewhat better accuracy, as the bullet would be almost engaging the rifling due to overall length, and would have a little more zip than standard pressure 45 Colt rounds, ending up somewhere in the +P category.
I am sure that someone will corect me if my theory is wrong, but it seems somewhat sound in theory. I already decided that I will be only using said 45/70 casings for some all brass shot shells.....
I guess I would not have gotten flamed as bad if I had explained all this in the first place, but hey, hindsight is always 20/20. And to everyone who calls down people who ask questions that may not seem sensible to you, what good does it do to call us idiots for asking our question? Instead of answering like a corksucker, maybe sharing some of what you know might help the people asking the question. But I am sure your comments are more about making yourself feel better at someone elses expense.
It is not just this posting that brings out this point, but anytime someone who is asking an honest question this happens. If this forum is not the place to find the information they are looking for.....then where would all you big mouthed experts suggest we go to get answers and not have to deal with pretentious bastards like you? Was my mother the only one who said "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all"
That being said, if someone would like to get into a who's the biggest #### contest, lets start us a little thread in Off Topics so we can get all of our maliticiousness out there. On the other hand, there are some really great knowledge bases out there and some great people willing to share what they know, Thank you for helping us less informed get the information we are looking for.
I just think its funny that some people take the time to be snotty and say things like "that was covered in your pal...... I am asking because I do NOT know everything, but this seemed like the best place for that question to be answered. To give everyone the background on WHY I was asking, is that a 45 Colt has an OAL is 1.6" and the gun I have has a 3" chamber. I have read that combo guns accuracy with the pistol rounds was somewhat lacking due to it having to fly about 1.4" before it engages the rifling. What I was thinking is putting a .454 bullet on the top of a case that would give the cartridge an OAL ~3" so that the bullet does not have to travel as far, improving the accuracy theoretically. A 45/70 case is 5mm short of 3" and CAN be chambered in a 410 chamber, as multiple people on this site have used them for shotshell casings. I thought with a reduced charge in the larger case, somewhere in the 16-18000psi range, would give me somewhat better accuracy, as the bullet would be almost engaging the rifling due to overall length, and would have a little more zip than standard pressure 45 Colt rounds, ending up somewhere in the +P category.
I am sure that someone will corect me if my theory is wrong, but it seems somewhat sound in theory. I already decided that I will be only using said 45/70 casings for some all brass shot shells.....
I guess I would not have gotten flamed as bad if I had explained all this in the first place, but hey, hindsight is always 20/20. And to everyone who calls down people who ask questions that may not seem sensible to you, what good does it do to call us idiots for asking our question? Instead of answering like a corksucker, maybe sharing some of what you know might help the people asking the question. But I am sure your comments are more about making yourself feel better at someone elses expense.
It is not just this posting that brings out this point, but anytime someone who is asking an honest question this happens. If this forum is not the place to find the information they are looking for.....then where would all you big mouthed experts suggest we go to get answers and not have to deal with pretentious bastards like you? Was my mother the only one who said "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all"
That being said, if someone would like to get into a who's the biggest #### contest, lets start us a little thread in Off Topics so we can get all of our maliticiousness out there. On the other hand, there are some really great knowledge bases out there and some great people willing to share what they know, Thank you for helping us less informed get the information we are looking for.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
1. No, it can't. Go ahead and try it. You are misinformed. The .45-70 case and rim are much larger in diameter than a .410 shell, or a .45LC case. It is possible these guys are using a die to swag down .45-70 cases, then turning the rims down, but not only is this unlikely, it's impractical.
2. Why the heck don't you just shoot 3" .410 slugs?
3. You came out swinging after asking just about the single most fundamental unit of firearms knowledge. If your gun is marked .45LC/.410, your gun can shoot .45LC/.410. NOT .45-70. If people are harsh, it's because a lot of people blind themselves, or worse, others by pulling stupid s**t like shooting a cartridge in a gun it's not chambered for. It might be my wife beside Bubba Joe at the range when he forces a cartridge into his chamber that's not meant to be there. That said, try it; that .45-70 isn't going into your .410 chamber even on a cold day in July.
Now that you've explained why, it kinda makes sense! Those 45C-410s are not noted for there accuracy in 45C mode. You could size a 45-70 case down to fit & using 45 colt dies, & pistol sized bullets end up with a more accurate round. You'd then have to deal with a small powder charge in a very much larger case. Not impossible, maybe not practicle, but if you feel your up to the challenge & use common sense, have at it. Let us know how you make out.
Nothing wrong with coming up with an idea, researching it, asking questions and if you are satisfied with your research, proceding to some testing. Regardless of what the nannies say here, that's how wildcats and ultimately factory ammo are invented and that's how North America was found.
Bottom line, be safe and have fun.
Bottom line, be safe and have fun.
Wow do things make more sense when you read the information in threads correctly. I was reading in the reloading section about 45/70 shot shells and I thought they were being used in a 410. Upon closer inspection I was mixing up my information, and that the 45/70 shot shells were being used in a……you guessed it…..45/70! Shocking I know. They were using 410 shell components, but the rounds were being fired from a 45/70 chambered rifle.
I know that people have fire formed .303 British brass into .410 shot shells as they have the same rim diameter and they are about the same length as a 2.5” 410 shell. So I will try that for some 410 reloads and stick with 45 Colt loads and reloads and be happy with that. And a note to self……CHECK FACTS BEFORE POSTING DUMBASS lol
I know that people have fire formed .303 British brass into .410 shot shells as they have the same rim diameter and they are about the same length as a 2.5” 410 shell. So I will try that for some 410 reloads and stick with 45 Colt loads and reloads and be happy with that. And a note to self……CHECK FACTS BEFORE POSTING DUMBASS lol
