.45-70 in Extreme Cold Weather?

Bought a Marlin 1895GS recently and plan to use it for a November moose hunt.(if I am lucky enough to get drawn) I have worked up a accurate, shoulder thumping load; 58gr IMR4064 + 300gr JHP+ Win LR primer
My question is, Should I use a Magnum primer when it drops down to
-20C or colder?(easy here in NE Alberta)
Thanks
 
You could use a magnum primer if you wish. It will make your cartridge go bang, the same as a standard primer will.
There is no way that you could tell which primer ignited the powder.
 
I don't think you need to worry about the primer. I've shot mine reliably with standard primers in very cold weather.

I've only shot deer with 350 grain Hornady's, and it's a general purpose thumper. So I am wondering about the 300gr hollow point. It may be a bit on the fragile side for moose, especially if used in stout loads. Keep in mind that many of the standard 300grain JHPs were meant primarily for deer sized game.
 
my coyote hunting partner uses 4064 in his coyote rifle and he literally had to hold his rifle still for about a second in -45 while the powder decided whether or not it was going to go

my 223 loaded with benchmark didn't even think twice about working.

and those are two powders that can be used in a 45-70 ;)

i shoot my 45-70 with 4198 and it's accurate also good to -15 that's as cold as i've gone with it
 
I live in NE Alberta & I've fired my 458x2inch American during very cold weather at the outdoor range.
Found only that my powder choice was temperature sensitive myself. Reloader 7 did open up three shot groups a bit more at 100 yards from a bench. (1.5 inch group)
But IMR 3031 seemed to hold it's groups to around and just under 1 inch, in the same conditions.
Regular CCI primers used here.
 
Appears I am the odd man out in this. I use magnum rifle primers when working up ALL hunting loads. Regualr primers are reserved for summer loads for gophers etc. With the 45-70 in the Marlim, just make sure you have all the heavy oil cleaned out and only Hoppes 9 or Gunslick Anhydrous Graphite in the tiny tubes, for lubbe in real cold weather.

As to your load and bullets I have shot a few moose and many bear with the 300 grain HP Hornadys and they work just fine. Shot one moose right through both shoulder blades at 40 yars with a stout load and the bullet held together just fine. Moose never took a step. Recovered it on the hide on the off side and it was still 85% of its starting weight.

That said, I have come to prefer the Hornady 350 grains round nose for the best all round jacketed bullet in the 45-70. Accurate, hold together but mushroom well, and feed great in al the diffrent 45-70s I have used them in. The load on the target was shot with a Marlin lever. The load is light enough for any age of 45-70, and is doing about 1850 fps. In the Marlin you can go all the way to 60 grains, and pick up another 300 fps, but after years of shooting these things I have found the lighter loads way more pleasant to shoot and the animal can't tell a lick of difference. Dead is dead. I used a 45-70 a lot for bear control up north and litterally hundreds have met their maker at the hands of 50 grains of 3031 and a Hornady 350 grain RN.

As you can see from the date on the picture I have been using the Hornady 350s for more than 20 years.

4570resized.jpg
 
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load for moose

i load hard cast slugs, i use the 500 gr load in my handi rifle, it may pose an issue in a lever gun due to overall length of cartridge, but my load consists of rem brass, CCI 200 primer large rifle, 40.5 gr of H322 lube used in load was spg, bullet sized to .459, shoots 2" group at 150 yrds, now i do load a real thumper in the 4570 using hornady 350 round nose jacketed bullets, this load consists of 49 gr of IMR 4198 rem brass, CCI 200 primers, larger rifle, seat bullet to correct length, its a real shoulder thumper in the handi, but shoots MOA at 100 yards
i had the chamber reamed on it with a 4570 reamer to clean up what the factory left behind, gave a lead on rifling so i could load the heavier bullets, gun came with an extremely short chamber, so this is my 2 primary loads, i do not use 300 gr bullets, they dont perform at all, they have very weak jackets and shouldnt be pushed to higher than factory velocities, as ive tested them and jacket separates from them every time, 350 grainers are the cats meow for moose, very tough bullet, designed originally for reduced loads in 458 win magnum
 
Somewhere in my house is a shooting book and in that book are the results of lab tests done on primers, some years ago. Very extensive lab tests were carried out on all current primers. One thing tested was the difference experienced in the "fire power" of the primer, in consideration of how hard the firing pin hit it. They discovered that a hard hitting firing pin resulted in a hotter primer, while a weak hitting firing pin resulted in a weak primer firing.
Bottom line was the strength of the firing pin hit, made more difference, than did the type of primer. They stated that a magnum primer hit with a weak pin, had less heat and duration, than did a standard primer hit by a hard hitting firing pin.
I think this accounts for people thinking the cold effects the primer. Rifle actions have to be either thoroughly cleaned, then used dry, in cold weather, or some type of lubrication that is not effected by cold. If the firing pin barely fires the primer, it will be weak, regardless what primer is used.
I personally saw the method used by the old time meat hunters and trappers in severely cold winters in northern Saskatchewan. At the start of cold winter weather, they thoroughly cleaned their rifle actions with kerosene, then used the rifle dry, until spring. To get away from the sweating of bringing a cold rifle in the house, they had a simple solution. They never brought the rifle into a warm room all winter!
Most houses or cabins had a cold porch or shelter over the door, of some type. Walk up to a homestead house in the winter and the first thing you would see, would be a 30-30 hanging on the wall, outside. As a point of interest, it would have the magazine full of shells and likely one in the chamber, also.
One more thing about magnum primers. Magnum primers didn't come into existance until the early 1960s. So what do you think the shooters used for all those years prior to that?
 
Somewhere in my house is a shooting book and in that book are the results of lab tests done on primers, some years ago. Very extensive lab tests were carried out on all current primers. One thing tested was the difference experienced in the "fire power" of the primer, in consideration of how hard the firing pin hit it. They discovered that a hard hitting firing pin resulted in a hotter primer, while a weak hitting firing pin resulted in a weak primer firing.
Bottom line was the strength of the firing pin hit, made more difference, than did the type of primer. They stated that a magnum primer hit with a weak pin, had less heat and duration, than did a standard primer hit by a hard hitting firing pin.
I think this accounts for people thinking the cold effects the primer. Rifle actions have to be either thoroughly cleaned, then used dry, in cold weather, or some type of lubrication that is not effected by cold. If the firing pin barely fires the primer, it will be weak, regardless what primer is used.
I personally saw the method used by the old time meat hunters and trappers in severely cold winters in northern Saskatchewan. At the start of cold winter weather, they thoroughly cleaned their rifle actions with kerosene, then used the rifle dry, until spring. To get away from the sweating of bringing a cold rifle in the house, they had a simple solution. They never brought the rifle into a warm room all winter!
Most houses or cabins had a cold porch or shelter over the door, of some type. Walk up to a homestead house in the winter and the first thing you would see, would be a 30-30 hanging on the wall, outside. As a point of interest, it would have the magazine full of shells and likely one in the chamber, also.
One more thing about magnum primers. Magnum primers didn't come into existance until the early 1960s. So what do you think the shooters used for all those years prior to that?

All your points are dead on, and I fully agree with making sure that the gun is completely degreased and only a top end synthetic lube used, and then very lightly. It is important to ensure the gun has a good strike, but a gun like a 30-30 with the exposed hammer is not as affected as a bolt gun is, to how old or new the firing pin spring is. In the NWT and Yukon, we also didn't bring the rifles in until the full hunt was over.

With all that, I still use magnum primers. A magnum primer hit with the same force as a non-mag is SGINIFICANTLY hotter. There is NO down side to the extra pre-caution. As to we didn't have these in the 60,s, flintlocks had lots of FTFs, precussion somewhat less and so on. Those who had to got along with the best technology they had at the time, and still shot lots of stuff. We didn't have cell phones in the 60s either but why wouldn't you use the ones that are available today because of that.
 
Be sure to test your IMR4064 load in the winter, as I don't believe that's an extreme powder. It may go from very accurate to unacceptable. I had that happen to me with an imr3031 deer load once, I loaded it up in +25 degree and when I got out in the humid +5 kind of stuff, I was doing 2.5 inches @ 50.

That stuff about Magnum primers is all BS imo, it's how hard the firing pin strikes the thing. If you're wanting more ignition so that your powder burns more reliably, won't you have to back your load down a tad? My understanding is that magnum primers increase the pressure significantly.
 
It is important to ensure the gun has a good strike, but a gun like a 30-30 with the exposed hammer is not as affected as a bolt gun is, to how old or new the firing pin spring is.

I don't agree with that at all. As a lever gun user for more than 40 years, I can say with authority, that a lever gun is just as likely to be affected by cold temps as any bolt gun. After all, it has a firing pin too, and in many cases, a sectional firing pin, in addition to a hammer that has a pivot point that can freeze up when lube, or moisture is present, and thickened by cold.

All firearms need to have minimal light lube for very cold temps. Some folks even remove it all before going out in extreme cold. As always, keep your action clean. It's even more important in the cold.

Light primer strike can affect ignition for sure. But I think it will affect both magnum, and regular primers equally in that regard.

Powder choice is likely a more serious consideration.
Hogdon is a leader in powders that are less temp sensitive.
 
Be sure to test your IMR4064 load in the winter, as I don't believe that's an extreme powder. It may go from very accurate to unacceptable. I had that happen to me with an imr3031 deer load once, I loaded it up in +25 degree and when I got out in the humid +5 kind of stuff, I was doing 2.5 inches @ 50.


IMR4064 is very consistent year round in my 308win, 350Rem Mag, and former 358win. I try to do most of my serious load development over the winter, which doesn't get that cold here, but closely simulates most hunting conditions. IMR3031 is used in my 45-70(s) and has shown no difference from winter to summer.

These are my observations.
 
My rule of thumb was to use a magnum primer when:
A) igniting ball powder,
B) powder charge exceeds 50 grs
C) shooting at temperatures drops below 0F

Due to the difficulty of bringing primers in, I now use magnum primers almost exclusively and I have not experienced a down side. I tend to load in large batches, so its difficult to know at what time of year my ammo might get used. I also tend to prefer magnum primers when shooting reduced loads in large cases like the .375 Ultra, .416 Rigby, or the big Weatherby cases, as the pinch of pistol powder tends to lie along the case wall in such a way that I believe the hotter flame produces more reliable ignition, and I don't use fillers. The exception is when I'm loading for match accuracy as the least amount of violence from the primer tends to produce the best accuracy.

I seem to recall that I used 2 powders almost exclusively when I loaded for the .45/70, Unique and 3031; occasionally I tried 748, and my primer of choice in those days was the Plain Jane WLR.
 
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