I'm looking to experiment with some light (<1000 fps) plinking loads out of my Marlin 1895 guide rifle. I want to use Reloader 7. Now, with a powder charge of 30 grains under a 405gr cast projectile there is at least 1/2" of empty case between the two. I was reading that guys are using corn meal and cream of wheat and all sorts of other concoctions to fill that empty void. Why is a filler necessary? I have shot a few rounds through the rifle with the 30 grain charge and they seem to go off every time I squeeze the trigger. I can't find any information as to why I need filler. Is internal case pressure an issue or is it an issue of all the powder sliding to one side of the case when horizontal or...??? And, if you are using a filler for your 45-70 light loads, what are you using and how much are you adding? Do you compress the load or just add enough to get the filler to the base of your projectile? Thanks.
45-70 light loads and "FILLER"???
- Thread starter armorman
- Start date
Using filler is supposed to help ignition when the powder may move away from the primer,that may be dangerous.
It certainly doesn't help consistant ignition.
A lot of people have used kapok for filler and there is a pourpose made filler called Puf lon (sp).
It certainly doesn't help consistant ignition.
A lot of people have used kapok for filler and there is a pourpose made filler called Puf lon (sp).
just having some fun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Not a 45-70 expert
Looked at a cast reloading book your powder not listed in loads
Other data for a 405g no powder listed goes that low (1000fps)
Filler
Filler depend on different factors
Powder--(Mostly powder used)Speed / how well it burns etc.
Empty air space not used in the case
The filler is used to keep the powder towards the primer (so not position sensitive-- muzzle up/muzzle down
The only filler I have used is Dacron filler (used in clothing/ bedding)
when using filler I have to reduce loads and work up (Started below min after doing research)
Filler will also improve the burn of some of the powders that only burn better at higher presures
Check out data for ???? Trail Boss ????
Check out h t tp://castboolits.gunloads.com
Looked at a cast reloading book your powder not listed in loads
Other data for a 405g no powder listed goes that low (1000fps)
Filler
Filler depend on different factors
Powder--(Mostly powder used)Speed / how well it burns etc.
Empty air space not used in the case
The filler is used to keep the powder towards the primer (so not position sensitive-- muzzle up/muzzle down
The only filler I have used is Dacron filler (used in clothing/ bedding)
when using filler I have to reduce loads and work up (Started below min after doing research)
Filler will also improve the burn of some of the powders that only burn better at higher presures
Check out data for ???? Trail Boss ????
Check out h t tp://castboolits.gunloads.com
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I use 30grs of IMR4198 and fill the space left with cornmeal from a dipper I made from a cut down 44mag case. Always get a 1" group (or better if I am on really on my game) at 100 yards. I found that filling the case tightened up the group and was more consistant than a load with the powder loose inside. Now this works with my Ruger #3 in 45-70 and it worked on my Browning B92 in 44mag, but, my M70 in 30-06 did just the opposiste(I think because it's a bottleneck case and the CM and CoW will clump which is not an issue with straight wall cases).
So you have shot a light load without the filler, now try the same load with filler (don't compress it) and see how your rifle likes it.
So you have shot a light load without the filler, now try the same load with filler (don't compress it) and see how your rifle likes it.
I've always found light loads of Reloder 7 to be inaccurate. ( Until I get above 40gr ). For light loads I've been using SR-4759 which generally works quite well. Recently I've started to play with lighter loads of H-4198 in my Ruger #1 and found great accuracy with 31gr of H4198, Federal LR magnum primer, and a 450gr hard cast bullet. In this case the magnum primer seemed to really help tighten things up.
Chris.
Chris.
Thanks for the replies. I haven't chronographed anything yet so I'm not even sure where my 30 grains of RL7 is at. I have some data showing me that 33 grains in a 16" barrel is at 1386 fps so I'm not even sure if it's possible to get ~1000 fps with RL7 and still maintain decent accuracy....I'll have to pull the chronograph out and see. Initial results show some ok accuracy at 50 yards though...just standing with open sights I'm able to ring a 6" gong every time and judging by where the impacts are on the gong it appears the bullets aren't scattering or inconsistent from what I can tell. Going to test him off a bench with a front rest at 100 and see. This is just for fun plinking at close range (<100 yards) so I'm not overly concerned with cutting edge accuracy-tight groups at this time. That and I wanted to introduce this 1895G rifle to my 12 year old son so I need a load that is pretty tame for him...and when he pulls the trigger the load is decent enough for him to ring some 2 moa gongs while standing.
Where can I find some of these fillers specific for reloading? I don't recall seeing them at any of the local gunshops.
Where can I find some of these fillers specific for reloading? I don't recall seeing them at any of the local gunshops.
Cornmeal and Cream of Wheat fillers can be found at your local grocery store and poly batting at a frabric store. There are small plastic beads that shotgun folks use so that would be available at any store that carries shotgun reloading supplies.
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
I do and have done some 45-70 light load shooting, primarily with a Marlin 1895GS and did some with a Pedersoli Sharps I had the loan of. I have a variety of cast that I generally use for light loads and these are
For reduced load powders, and for some of those powders I also use a filler. The powders I'm talking about are the likes of Unique, 2400 and IMR 4227.
Initially and only in a few instances at the beginning, I did 'try' fillers like cream of wheat and Cornmeal etc. With concerns of the filler possibly mixing with the powders over longer periods of time of being carried and not used, I decided to go for something that would act as a non-mixing barrier. The first product I tried was shreddings of cotton balls.
The product I use now is a Stopdrafts product by Tago, purchased at Home Depot I believe and called foam backer rod. It comes as a coil of very porus foam, 1/2" in diameter and about 20' long. I did have concerns of the possibility of a build up or deposit in the barrel but that hasn't happened. When you touch off a shot and if you watch closely, about all you notice is a slight puff of dust from the muzzle.
What I do first is measure the distance between the top of the powder charge and the base of where the bullet will be seated to and cut the material to that length. I have a little jig made up and once the size is determined cutting a batch using a utility knife blade, the process goes quickly. Then, once the case is charged, a quick roll of the material between thumb & forefinger and insert in the case is all that's required. Works well, is very uniform and the results meet with my expectations.
There is light load info in the present, 3rd edition of the Lyman Cast Bullet handbook, in the RCBS Cast Bullet manual and I believe also on the Cast Bullet web site to name a few sources. Another source for me is a very tattered copy I have of the 1st edition of the Lyman Handbook of Cast Bullets which I've scanned and posted below.
For reduced load powders, and for some of those powders I also use a filler. The powders I'm talking about are the likes of Unique, 2400 and IMR 4227.
Initially and only in a few instances at the beginning, I did 'try' fillers like cream of wheat and Cornmeal etc. With concerns of the filler possibly mixing with the powders over longer periods of time of being carried and not used, I decided to go for something that would act as a non-mixing barrier. The first product I tried was shreddings of cotton balls.
The product I use now is a Stopdrafts product by Tago, purchased at Home Depot I believe and called foam backer rod. It comes as a coil of very porus foam, 1/2" in diameter and about 20' long. I did have concerns of the possibility of a build up or deposit in the barrel but that hasn't happened. When you touch off a shot and if you watch closely, about all you notice is a slight puff of dust from the muzzle.
What I do first is measure the distance between the top of the powder charge and the base of where the bullet will be seated to and cut the material to that length. I have a little jig made up and once the size is determined cutting a batch using a utility knife blade, the process goes quickly. Then, once the case is charged, a quick roll of the material between thumb & forefinger and insert in the case is all that's required. Works well, is very uniform and the results meet with my expectations.
There is light load info in the present, 3rd edition of the Lyman Cast Bullet handbook, in the RCBS Cast Bullet manual and I believe also on the Cast Bullet web site to name a few sources. Another source for me is a very tattered copy I have of the 1st edition of the Lyman Handbook of Cast Bullets which I've scanned and posted below.
I use the weather stripping material you can get from Canadian tire. The 1/2 inch size is perfect. Cut into 3/4 inch sections and it fits just right. You can compress it and it doesn't seem to have any effect on the accuracy.
Don't try this with Black Powder. Always make sure the powder is compressed by the projectile.
Don't try this with Black Powder. Always make sure the powder is compressed by the projectile.
My favourite light load is 20.0grs SR 4759, 385gr or 405 gr cast bullet, Lyman Ideal lube, and either rifle or pistol primers. No filler is needed. Load from the first Lyman cast bullet handbook, under Pet Loads in bullet listings.
Pathfinder
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Northeast Ontario
this works. Cant say I found to be any accurate but they fun loads with no recoil for anybody to shoot.
The friller is to keep the powder close to the primer to help with consistant ignition. Consistant ignition, consistant velocity.
North disposable ear plugs. Pour in powder, push in ear plug, seat bullet. Powder doesn't move around at all.
This is a good site for low velocity loads. http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm
Buy the Sharps yet???
North disposable ear plugs. Pour in powder, push in ear plug, seat bullet. Powder doesn't move around at all.
This is a good site for low velocity loads. http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm
Buy the Sharps yet???
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
I've used old quilt batting (cotton waste) for many years, and Rel 7 and H4198 are favorite powders. I always use a filler with Rel 7, it cleans it up, and makes it consistent. Otherwise it can be a very dirty powder.
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
Trail boss is 'good stuff' but from what I've tried in 45-70 using it,
I can't seem to get the same degree of accuracy I'm getting with my other light load combos.
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
I've found T/B to be very "position sensitive", even in the .45 lc case. Shooting down at enough of an angle to move the powder away from the primer flash hole will result in more unburnt powder confetti than I would have ever expected from a smokeless powder. I've had SAA pistols fowl/seize up with unburnt T/B powder worse than with B/P residue.
If I where useing T/B in my 45-70 I would definitly be useing a tuft of dacron to hold the powder in place.
If I where useing T/B in my 45-70 I would definitly be useing a tuft of dacron to hold the powder in place.
