.45-70 smokeless loads for 1874 Sharps

Claven2

Claven2

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I'm looking for some insight on loading smokeless rounds for an 1874 Sharps. The rifle in question is a Pedersoli 1874 Cavalry Carbine Sharps with 22" bbl.

According to the manual for the Pedersoli Sharps rifles:

The .45-70 caliber can be loaded with commercial smokeless factory made ammunition, not exceeding the 29.007 C.U.P. / P.S.I. or reloaded cartridges with black powder or equivalent propellant (Pyrodex) not exceeding the 25.000 C.U.P./P.S.I.
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So essentially I need to stay below 29K psi pressure.

Has anyone got a reloading reference for CAST hard lead ALLOY (ie, quenched wheel-weights) for .45-70 that stays below 29K and still gives decent performance?

I've been told that "Pet Loads" has some good data, but I don't have a copy.

Anyone able to help?

I want to stick to solid lead aloxed bullets and avoid paper patching if possible.

Anyone know if I need to gas check at these pressures?
 
You may want to try a 20:1 lead-tin mixture. That seems to be quite popular among the Sharps shooters as an alloy that is soft enough to obturate properly at lower velocities without leading. Check out this month's Handloader Magazine for more info (there's a good article on cast bullets and the author goes on a bit about casting for long range black powder cartridge shooting.)
 
"Handloader Magazine" - yeah, right. :roll: Available on Ottawa news stands everywhere... :roll:

I don;t live in the WEST!!! (more's the pity).
 
John Y Cannuck said:
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/4570gov.php

This is data for the Trapdoor rifle, you can easily handle that. CUP is listed foreach load
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I saw that, but it's not very specific. Do I gas check those? Is a case filler used?

49gr or Varget isn't even going to half fill the case - won't I have to worry about powder positional inconsistencies?

Although, I want a deer load, not doing long range BPCR with it...
 
Hogdon doesn't like case fillers, but Lyman does.
At speeds below about 1600, you don't really need a gas check, unless you're shooting soft lead, then you'll need one above about 1200.
I use heavier loads myself, but I've found that powders in the speed range of R7, or H4198, work just fine.
 
Well, I guess a gas checks can't hurt - they are cheap enough.

I'll probably go 405gr cast over Varget near the Hodgdon max loads for trapdoor which is still 9000psi less than max for the Sharps. That means I'll be more like 1700, so gas checks it is.

Thanks for the 411.
 
SR4759 and AA5744 are two powders designed for reduced cast bullet loads and will give you BP or better performance in a smokeless format.

best part, they are not case location sensitive. There is plenty of data for loading these powders in 45-70 and the like.

H4895 is also good. Just make sure the powder you use comes with data that says ok to go that small a volume in a cast. Some powders do not work at reduced pressures and can cause some very dangerous situations.

Handloader is a great reference for all things cast.

Jerry
 
Handloader? Is that the newer Lee reference?

According to the Hodgdon website for .45-70 trapdoor loads:

405 GR. CAST LFP
VARGET 50.0 1718 20,900 CUP
H4895 48.0 1645 18,900 CUP

By that table, Varget seems like a better choice than 4895. Pressure well below 29K, fills more case volume and 73 more FPS on average.

I assume if those powder charges were position or low volume sensitive, Hodgdon wouldn;t be recommending those loads on their website, no?
 
Handloader magazine on most newstands every other month or so.

The new Lee manual is also excellent for cast bullet info. Understanding pressures vs alloy has been enlightening.

As to appropriate loads, only testing will let you know. I am playing with a BR cast bullet rifle in 308. So far accuracy has been really good for a cast rifle (sub MOA). Lots more testing to ensure consistent results (still get some wild flyers).

I found that velocity and pressure will have a huge impact on accuracy. Velocity is not really all that important. You are launching a mondo big slug. Those 405gr monsters were laying low bison when only going 1200fps or SLOWER. I doubt a deer will pose it any hardship.

The key is to find a blend of accuracy, leading and velocity. Gas checks are wonderful and make higher velocities possible without resorting to heat treating and other hard alloys.

Is your barrel set up for soft or hard lead? Really deep grooves or more like a smokeless rifle? The rifle may already limit what you can use and whether gas checks are appropriate. If you need a 20:1 alloy, forget about going 1700fps. Even with a gas check, I doubt the alloy will handle going much over 1450fps.

Some deep groove barrels will not like wheel weights or harder alloys.

So with cast, there is a lot of experimenting and testing. The rifle will let you know quickly what it likes.

Be prepared to play with alloy, lube and powders to find that balance. It's a lot of fun and require a lot of different tuning.

Jerry
 
Claven2 said:
A 7-11 in Ottawa is more likely to have foot fetich #### on the racks than it is to have a gun rag :roll:
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For all those in the Ottawa area,, the best place for any magazines is at "SouthBank News" at 1555 Bank Street (just north of Heron). It is in the little strip mall where "Ralph's" is. This place has pretty well every mag that is published,, including all the firearms mags.

It also has tons of tobacco and pipe products.

http://www.cyberus.ca/~cigarsb/page2.htm
 
My personal resource for cast bullet loads has always been Lyman's cast Bullet Handbook, 3rd edition. It's ALL cast bullet loads. I've not seen the new edition yet, I hope it's just as good.
If you decide to use the Reloader 7 loads, I found it really likes a good filler like cotton quilt batting. I just pack the case full, (not really hard) and seat the bullet on top.
 
mysticplayer said:
Handloader magazine on most newstands every other month or so.

The new Lee manual is also excellent for cast bullet info. Understanding pressures vs alloy has been enlightening.

As to appropriate loads, only testing will let you know. I am playing with a BR cast bullet rifle in 308. So far accuracy has been really good for a cast rifle (sub MOA). Lots more testing to ensure consistent results (still get some wild flyers).

I found that velocity and pressure will have a huge impact on accuracy. Velocity is not really all that important. You are launching a mondo big slug. Those 405gr monsters were laying low bison when only going 1200fps or SLOWER. I doubt a deer will pose it any hardship.

The key is to find a blend of accuracy, leading and velocity. Gas checks are wonderful and make higher velocities possible without resorting to heat treating and other hard alloys.

Is your barrel set up for soft or hard lead? Really deep grooves or more like a smokeless rifle? The rifle may already limit what you can use and whether gas checks are appropriate. If you need a 20:1 alloy, forget about going 1700fps. Even with a gas check, I doubt the alloy will handle going much over 1450fps.

Some deep groove barrels will not like wheel weights or harder alloys.

So with cast, there is a lot of experimenting and testing. The rifle will let you know quickly what it likes.

Be prepared to play with alloy, lube and powders to find that balance. It's a lot of fun and require a lot of different tuning.

Jerry
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Hi Jerry,

I'll have to get back yo you! the rifle's only due to arrive here from Marstar next weekend!

In the meantime, I've ordered a new .45 405gr bullet mold to try, restocked my Alox supply, ordered gas checks and some virgin brass and also a couple new load books. Everything else I've already got for casting and loading other calibers.

Can;t wait to get this project started! Hoping to have a half-way passable load for this fall in case I do any thick brush hunting where the .30-06 will be less effective than a masive .45-70 load :)
 
I use 5744 and really like it. I use minimum for plinking and target shooting and its quite mild. Not really sensitive to case position or temp. Leading has been minimal as well.
Never tried loading hot with it but its seen some old hunting rounds. They seem stronger than current, recoil is much stiffer. From what ive been reading here and there my highwall can take quite a strong load. Dont know much about rolling blocks other than the action is weaker than highwalls.
 
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