45 ACP chrony results

Onagoth

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Anyone have chrony results for various workups with the following?

W231
Fed Large Pistol Primers
230 gr Rainer FMJ

Being shot out of a 5" STI spartan.

Looking to push a PF of 170 or 740 ft/sec. Seems I will need to be around 5.5 grs based on the Lyman loading book.

Thanks,
 
I have chrony data using 5.10 grains of HP-38 using WLP primers and AIM 230 gr. bullets. Got an average of 727 FPS out of a 5" Rangemaster.
Hope it helps with your load development.
T
 
I have chronied this one. 5.7 grains of W231 and a 230 grain plated bullet gets you about 830 fps. 6.1 grains in my gun gives me about 875 fps. Once again, that is in my gun which is a 1911 with 20 lb spring and buffer.
 
Ran the 230 gr Rainier RN over 5.5 gr 231 on "quickload".

Result = V=887 f/s, P= 20,000 psi (Pmax=21,000 psi !!!), PF = 204.

Ran 4.8 gr 231

Result = v=802 f/s P= 15,200 psi (Much better), PF = 184.5

I don't swear by "Quickload" but its a pretty good tool nonetheless. I find its predictions slightly hotter/faster than my field results. This looks faster than saskcop's results too which illustrates the point I guess.

Anyhow, with a 230 gr slug you're pretty sure to make major PF (160) even with a light 4.8 gr load. It'll probably come down to what load makes your Spartan cycle well, given your choice of springs. If you plan to stretch your rounds a bit to help em feed, just be aware that small changes in seating depth make for pretty significant changes in pressures with 45 ACP.
 
Ran the 230 gr Rainier RN over 5.5 gr 231 on "quickload".

Result = V=887 f/s, P= 20,000 psi (Pmax=21,000 psi !!!), PF = 204.

Ran 4.8 gr 231

Result = v=802 f/s P= 15,200 psi (Much better), PF = 184.5

I don't swear by "Quickload" but its a pretty good tool nonetheless. I find its predictions slightly hotter/faster than my field results. This looks faster than saskcop's results too which illustrates the point I guess.

Anyhow, with a 230 gr slug you're pretty sure to make major PF (160) even with a light 4.8 gr load. It'll probably come down to what load makes your Spartan cycle well, given your choice of springs. If you plan to stretch your rounds a bit to help em feed, just be aware that small changes in seating depth make for pretty significant changes in pressures with 45 ACP.

humm interesting , so if I have a Crony I can estimate the exact presure my load produce ?
how does the math formula work ?
Caliber , bullet weight , Bullet speed and powder use ?

This is pretty neat :cool:

btw nice kirby you got :D
do you really own one ?
 
humm interesting , so if I have a Crony I can estimate the exact presure my load produce ?

As far as I am aware no. My understanding regarding "rule of thumb" pressure calculations is that they're really rule of thumb and not empirically exact. If you google a bit I'm sure you'll find calcs for using a chrony to estimate pressures though.

"Quickload" shows pressures calculated from the limited info you insert in the little boxes. I wouldn't bet the farm on how exact they are either but I tend not to ignore them when they seem to be approaching SAAMI published maximums.

Only the Yanks buy their own hats. In most other jurisdictions hats are company gear. If you're into mantle trophies you'd get a copy for around 800 bucks, a genuine air hat for 5 grand or a gas unit for 30G. A Mark V makes for a better mantle trophy IMHO but you're still looking at 5 grand for the real McCoy new.

The one in my picture is a POS 27. Too small and strictly air.
 
humm interesting , so if I have a Crony I can estimate the exact presure my load produce ?

Definitely not.

The velocity produced is a pretty close function of the *average* pressure applied to the bullet.

But it isn't average pressure that blows up a gun, *peak* pressure does; and peak pressure doesn't show up particularly well in measured velocities.

A chronograph's combined with a loading manual though, can be sensibly interpreted to get a handle on what is going on. It's no substitute for a pressure measuring apparatus, but those aren't necessary unless you are doing pretty original load development work.

A chronograph is one of the most useful measuring tools you can use for making ammunition. After a powder measuring scale and a set of calipers, a chrono is probably the next most important thing to get.

how does the math formula work ?
Caliber , bullet weight , Bullet speed and powder use ?

Quickload is an "internal ballistics" calculator, that is, it models what happens to the bullet inside the barrel. ("exterior ballistics" is the flight through the air, "terminal ballistics" is the impact with the target).

Interior ballistics programs use a model of the system, typically this sort of thing:
- the rate at which the powder produces gas (typically a function of pressure, temperature, and fraction-of-powder-burnt)
- the rate at which the bullet accelerates (bore area, perhaps a friction model)

These two items are tied together, which gives a differential equation. This is integrated (usually numerically), which gives a prediction of the pressure, temperature, time, bullet position velocity and acceleration. This simulation is run until the bullet leaves the barrel.

Simulated parameters of interest are typically peak pressure produced, average pressure, and muzzle velocity. Some of these outputs are fairly sensitive to initial assumptions, hence the cautions about Quickload (and any other interior ballistics program too) being a useful arrow in the quiver if used as a guideline or development tool, but *NOT* at all a substitute for actual pressure testing.
 
So can someone explain the benefits of a chrony for me. I have never used one as my loads I use have been strictly plinking till now. Even with my handguns I could really care less, but I just started loading .223 and striving for accuracy. I realize it is the best indicator of consistency, but what does the speed of a bullet really do for me?
 
Knowing the velocity of your bullets will help you calculate their trajectory. Useful (though not essential) for shooting beyond 300 yards.

For long range shooting (900+ yards), the shot-to-shot consistency becomes important, since slower bullets will land lower on the target than faster bullets. The vertical size of long range groups can be improved by tuning a load for minimal shot-to-shot velocity variation.

If you're shooting IPSC, you may need to ensure that you achieve a certain power factor (bullet weight times speed). Since recoil is proportional to power factor, you might want to "come fairly close to the minimum (so less recoil and more control).

If you are doing any load development beyond what is published in loading manuals (for example, you want to get a good load for your .223 using some cheapo surplus power), knowing the muzzle velocities is a useful piece of information. Just as you don't want to be unintentionally overloading your ammo, you also don't want it to be overly mild (without knowing).
 
Anyone have chrony results for various workups with the following?

W231
Fed Large Pistol Primers
230 gr Rainer FMJ

Being shot out of a 5" STI spartan.

Looking to push a PF of 170 or 740 ft/sec. Seems I will need to be around 5.5 grs based on the Lyman loading book.

Thanks,

This bullet load combo is very close to what you are describing.

5.4 Gr Win 231
Win LPP
Bullet 230 Grain Montana Gold
Cases Mixed
Pistol Norinco 1911 5" Barrel
Chronograph - F1 Chrony
High Vel 836 fps
Low Vel 757 fps
Avg Vel 803 fps
Standard Deviation 14
High PF 192
Low PF 174
Avg PF 192
Temp 12/C

Matt I shot this same load out of my Commander and results were nearly identical with no loss in velocity using the shorter barreled gun. Loads were tested in strings of 10 so I think the load would be bang on for what you want. I would strongly suggest you get a Chrony for load development. It will be the best $125. you ever spend.

Take Care

Bob
 
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