.45 cal. TC Hawken load questions

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pacobillie

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I just got myself a new toy. It is a .45 caliber TC Hawken. Up to this day, all of my muzzleloaders have been .50 cal. inline rifles with 209 ignition and 1:28 inch rifling. This new one uses #11 percussion cap, and has 1:48 inch rifling.

In my inline, I have been using Blackhorn 209, but I understand that it will not work in the Hawken because of the #11 cap ignition.

Thus, the question is what will work, in terms of powder and bullets. What loads? Is 1:48 adequate for bore size conicals? sabots? or am I stuck with shooting patch and ball?

I saw that Hornady makes a 200grain SST saboted bullet in .45 caliber. How will that work with that rifling twist rate?
 
45 cal load in hawkens

hi there, good buy, i have a thompson 50, previously ive had 45's
accurate loads were using FFF black powder, 60 gr for patch ball target loads,
90 gr FFF with patch balls for hunting deer

bullets like maxis and lee bullets, ive found that 70gr charges worked best


in my 50 i use FF 70 gr for targets, 110 gr for hunting with a patch ball

bullets i use 100 grs FF

1 IN 48 IS THE HAPPY MEDUIM IN TWIST RATES, IT WILL SHOOT BALLS, BULLETS OF LEAD, AND SOME SABOTED
SABOTED USUALLY REQUIRE THE HIGHER END OF POWDER CHARGES TO BE EFFECTIVE, BY MEANS THEY NEED VELOCITIES AT THE HIGH END OF THE SCALE TO EXPAND PROPERLY AND TAKE DOW GAME, SOF LEAD BULLETS AND BALLS NEED NOT HEAVY SPEEDS TO OPEN UP AND DO THEIR JOB
 
.45 cal

..was gonna suggest something but Rod beat me to it and he knows his BP better then anyone else I have talked to. Take his advice and don't be shy to ask him for more information.
 
45 cal load in hawkens

big thanks to tank for suggesting me as a reference for black powder, always willing to help out anyone, i made lots of not so great choices along the way, however ive learned once you make a mistake, just dont do it again, life goes on,

black powder is finicky in some guns, as far as a 45 with a 1 in 48 twist barrel,
its the best in my opinion for a versitile gun, bullets for big bruty critters, or patch balls for paper or hitting the steel gong at the club, it will do it all

once you find a target load that is accurate and recoil manageable, stick with it

same for a hunting load, find one that works, and stay with it
the gun is only as good as the man behind it, practice makes perfect
and with black powder , take your time, be patient, it will work for you!
 
tc hawken

my .45 is my go-to gun for most competition at rendezvous' other than squirrel at.34 in an original flinter. my consistent best load i've found to be .440 ball, 45 grains fffg with a wet 14 thou round patch. i'll use crisco/beeswax combo for lube and enough spit added while holding patch in my mouth while i load. no fouling after 25 shots so i think it's about right. regards
 
In the "Black Powder Loading Manual" by Sam Fadala he test shoots a Thompson/Center .45 cal Hawken with a .440 round ball and a .015 patch. He used both 40 and 50 grs FFFg and 50 to 110 grs FFg. He says the optimum load is 90 grs FFg giving 1982 FPS.

He also tried 120 grs of Pyrodex RS (by volume) - 1951 FPS.

Best plinking load with the round ball was the 40 grs FFFg (1550 FPS).

He also tested the Hawken .45 with a .445 220 gr Denver Bullet Co. Maxi with 70 to 100 grs of FFg. He says the optimum load was the 100 gr FFg giving 1748 FPS.

He also used 110 grs of Pyrodex RS (by volume) with the above mentioned Maxi. (1678 FPS)
 
I think that Lyman's Black Powder Manual is considerably better than Sam Fadala. Re velocities and 3F vs 2F, in a 54 caliber, I got about 100 fps faster with 3 F than with 2F. I certainly don't think you need to double your charge when you go to 2F.
I really don't see the need to go to much more than 40 or 50 grains in a 45 cal for target shooting. The idea is to hit the target and not to destroy it. It is a lot of work replacing worn out gongs.
I also think that instead of looking for favourite loads, it would make a lot more sense to bench your gun and start around 35 grains and go up in 5 grain jumps and compare the 5 shot groups that you get at 25 yards. At that range you can see the bull clearly and should already be seeing differences in the accuracy of the loads, assuming there is one. Your gun probably has a twist of 1:48 which is a compromise for both mini/maxi balls and round ball. There is a good chance that its accuracy will vary with the load

cheers mooncoon
 
As usual, Mooncoon is on the mark with his advice. I shoot 3-shot test groups at 25 yd using 5 grain increments in the powder charges. Try both 3F and 2F but usually both will work with slightly different volumes (about 10% less powder using 3 F). 3F typically leaves a bit less fouling so I've settled on it and 40 grain with a .445 ball is very accurate in both of my 45 cals. I use 70 gr FFFg for hunting and even out to a bit beyond 100 yds the ball will still pass through a deer's chest. I've never recovered a ball from the several deer I've shot so the 45 cal balls have lots of punch for game that size. Practice, practice, practice.
 
What about suitable BP substitutes? Real BP is very hard to find.

I have already ruled out Blackhorn, because of the cap ignition. This essentially leaves Pyrodex, 777 loose powder, and Shockey's Gold in FFFG granulation.

I read that Pyrodex is corrosive, that 777 may be hard to ignite and that Shockey's Gold is inconsistent. Does anyone have experience with the latter?

The last thread I saw on the topic is quite old.
 
Pyrodex is very corrosive but still cleans up well with Windex. I have used it for years with good results.

A friend uses 777 and is very happy with it.

For several years now I have used Goex Clear Shot. I love it! It cleans up just like smokeless powder and I can shoot all day without cleaning between shots. Unfortunately it is no longer produced.

I have heard that American Pioneer Powder is good but have not yet tried it.
 
I don't have a T/C, but I have a couple of CVA's, an Ardesa and a Pedersoli in 45. They all perform very well with 25 gr. of fffG and a patched round ball. Great for small game, and deadly accurate out to 25-30 yds. For bigger game, I use a 250 gr. maxi ball (cast from a Lee mould) and 70 gr. of ffG. I can keep them in 4" at a 100 yards. I have used Bp substitutes - Pyrodex, Shockey and Triple 7 with both loads, and they were OK. Hope this helps.
 
Range report

First, thanks to you all for the input. I have now had the benefit of two range sessions (really one, as no shot was fired the first time around, as per story below) with the Hawken.

First, I tried to find a suitable propellant. I eventually found both APP Jim Shockey's Gold, in FFFG, and Triple Seven powder, also in FFFG. Initially, I could not find a source of real BP, in the Montreal area. Eventually, I found out that Londero Sports carries it.

On my first trip to the range, I could not get the T7 to ignite, with the #11 caps. Not having a bullet puller on hand, that was the end of that session.


I changed the nipple to one that accepts musket caps. There was an immediate improvement in the ignition, although the T7 proved unreliable. I reluctantly switched to the JSG, and was pleasantly surprised. I eventually settled on a 70 grain load for plinking at 50 yards and 90 grain load for long range shooting. The JSG was totally reliable, until the flash hole needed cleaning, after about 30 shots.


I have shot patched round balls, and 200 Gr. SST sabots with very decent results. the results with the Maxiballs were a mixed bag. I was surprised at how well I did with the open sights, since the best I could do when aiming was cover the orange part of the target with the post and pull the trigger.


All in all, I would feel confident shooting that thing up to 100 yards with sabots , but no farther than that. I am not yet sold on the conicals, but maybe that a felt wad on top of the powder will improve accuracy.
 
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