450 Bushmaster vs 20ga vs 308 - Deer Hunt

[-Doug-]

Couple of open ended questions here:

1. For deer hunting within 100 yards are there any advantages to the bushmaster over a 20ga sabot slug.

2. Shooting through light brush still within that 100 yard distance will either the 20ga or 450 outperform a 308? I have heard people say a 308 will deflect if it hits a tiny twig, will the 20ga or 450 just keep going straight?

3. If a deer was standing at 50 yards in the open would you rather hit it with a 20ga, 450 or 308 (does it really matter at that point). Does your answer change if the deer is running towards or away from you?

 

[Potashminer]

Of the three that you mention, I have only shot deer with 308 Win - was always 165 grain Speer HotCor bullets - from 15 feet to 300 yards. Open pasture to thick willow bush. Always worked fine, I think.

My understanding is that any flying projectile of any weight is going to be deflected, if it hits "off centre" on an obstacle. If it is an expanding bullet, will likely be partially opened up, as well, and likely tumbling after contact. I do not put much stock in the idea that some projectile will NOT deflect when it skims along a branch. Might not deflect as much, if it dead centre hits, but is then likely expanding or expanded as it exists that obstacle.

Running towards or away - you are going to kill the deer by getting your bullet through a necessary living part of it - brain, spinal cord up above lungs, heart / lungs. When coming toward you, a lot of that is just a straight line to you. When going away, might have to penetrate a ham, then the paunch, before getting into lung area. Or be really "dead eye" and hit it in the back of the head.

For some dangerous game, is a legitimate stopping shot to aim to break the pelvis on a wounded animal going away - to make it fall down - then, a second kill shot through vitals. Depends how you hunt deer, I guess?? I suspect on normal size deer, there would be a LOT of the meat wasted that way??

 

[MiG25]

I believe Ross Seyfried wrote an article 20 years ago or so testing this out. IIRC, only a roundball showed any ability to bust through brush in a relatively straight line.

 

[alpining]

Couple of open ended questions here:

1. For deer hunting within 100 yards are there any advantages to the bushmaster over a 20ga sabot slug.

2. Shooting through light brush still within that 100 yard distance will either the 20ga or 450 outperform a 308? I have heard people say a 308 will deflect if it hits a tiny twig, will the 20ga or 450 just keep going straight?

3. If a deer was standing at 50 yards in the open would you rather hit it with a 20ga, 450 or 308 (does it really matter at that point). Does your answer change if the deer is running towards or away from you?

1. Yes, especially if you reload.

2. Yes, deflection is always a question of "how much?" Generally speaking, the pointier it is, the more it will deflect. Weight of projectile matters a lot as well.

3. Any of these would be more than fine if hit in the vitals. If not hit in the vitals, then the bigger diameter the better (assuming all options are using appropriate hunting projectiles at appropriate velocities).

 

[nowarningshot]

1 yes

2 try to hit the deer. But not as.much as you think

3 Dead is dead. I would still take either r8fle

 

[Hammerdak]

Just a FYI.
A YouTuber recently demonstrated that a slug does not deflect off brush as much as a “ point” bullet. In fact going through quite well by comparison.
The lighter the bullet , the more it deflected…( not hard to figure that one out ). So .223 may not be a good choice.

From my personal experience on deer from 20 to 50 yards: 1).308 150gr will drop them without any more waste than a 30-30 150gr.
2):I hit high-heart on a broadside buck with a 12 gauge slug . That slug bounced off the inner , far side, shoulder and turned 90 degrees , travelled back through most of the gut and exited just back of the last rib on the opposite side of the entry hole. A mess inside.
My point being, the slug didn’t expand or fragment like a “ pointy” bullet is designed to.

Personally I prefer to go with a rifle , .270 or bigger, over a shotgun. But I’ll take a slug over buck shot every day.

 

[Suther]

Deflection tests are a crap shoot. Controlling all the variables is nearly impossible, and the tests are never repeated enough times to have a statistically significant sample. You would need multiple calibers, shooting multiple velocities, using multiple different projectiles in each gun to make any meaningful conclusions, and nobody goes through that much effort that I've seen...

As an example, if a test shows 45-70 to deflect less than 308, is that because of bullet shape, bullet weight, impact velocity, some mix of these, or some other factor not considered?

The only way to ensure you don't get a deflection that misses, or worse only wounds the animal, is to not shoot through brush in the first place.

 

[SHELL SHUCKER]

Deflection tests are a crap shoot. Controlling all the variables is nearly impossible, and the tests are never repeated enough times to have a statistically significant sample. You would need multiple calibers, shooting multiple velocities, using multiple different projectiles in each gun to make any meaningful conclusions, and nobody goes through that much effort that I've seen...

As an example, if a test shows 45-70 to deflect less than 308, is that because of bullet shape, bullet weight, impact velocity, some mix of these, or some other factor not considered?

The only way to ensure you don't get a deflection that misses, or worse only wounds the animal, is to not shoot through brush in the first place.

My sentiments as well. My choice of the 3 chamberings listed be the 450 BM loaded with hardcast 360gr, wide meplat boolits. Folks using guage bore guns are better served with the12 ga when using roundballs.

 

[Suther]

My sentiments as well. My choice of the 3 chamberings listed be the 450 BM loaded with hardcast 360gr, wide meplat boolits. Folks using guage bore guns are better served with the12 ga when using roundballs.

If I had to pick just one, I'd pick the 308, because the 308 will do everything the other 2 will, and at ranges the other two become unsuitable. Within 100yds they will all kill deer just fine as long as the hunter can make the shot count - and a great way to make the shot NOT count is by deflecting a bullet off brush you shouldn't have been shooting through in the first place...

 

[SHELL SHUCKER]

If I had to pick just one, I'd pick the 308, because the 308 will do everything the other 2 will, and at ranges the other two become unsuitable. Within 100yds they will all kill deer just fine as long as the hunter can make the shot count - and a great way to make the shot NOT count is by deflecting a bullet off brush you shouldn't have been shooting through in the first place...

I've not shot game through bush. Always in an open spot of my choosing.

 

[Brian46]

Couple of open ended questions here:

1. For deer hunting within 100 yards are there any advantages to the bushmaster over a 20ga sabot slug.

2. Shooting through light brush still within that 100 yard distance will either the 20ga or 450 outperform a 308? I have heard people say a 308 will deflect if it hits a tiny twig, will the 20ga or 450 just keep going straight?

3. If a deer was standing at 50 yards in the open would you rather hit it with a 20ga, 450 or 308 (does it really matter at that point). Does your answer change if the deer is running towards or away from you?

I have shot a few deer with both the 450 and 308

1 the advantage is a shorter and lighter firearm in the 450

2 308 shooting a partition will have better penetration than the 450 or 20ga. Hitting a twig is not a good idea with any projectile.

3 all the same, it is about shot placement.