.454Casull factory ammo failure

Oddbawl

Oddbawl

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I took my Puma in .454 to the range to show off to the boys, I've only shot .45 colts through it, so I picked up a box of Winchester Super X 300gr. .454's to give it a try. I loaded one and fired. The recoil was freaking monstrous, more than I was expecting (16" barrel) Heavier than the 18" 45-70 we were just shooting.
When I worked the lever (harder to do than normal), I found the case had ruptured, leaving about half of it in the chamber:
casull005.jpg


Even more distressing was what I found on closer inspection:
casull004.jpg


I went over the rifle with a fine toothed comb, nothing cracked or damaged from what I could see. I put a couple of lightly loaded .45colts through it, no problems, the cases came out happy, no warning signs that I could see. I moved up to hotter .45 loads and still no problems. The rifle seems to be ok.
Has anybody run in to this with Winchester Casull rds? Am I doing something wrong? WTF happened?
 
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IIRC I have had one (for sure and maybe two) Winchester case split about a quarter way down the length in my revolver but nothing as bad as that!

I take it you didn't try a second 454 round in the gun. The only thing that jumps to mind (and I am not an expert at levers at all) is that if you fired a whole bunch of 45Colt (particularly dirty lead loads) and then fired the 454 there may have been deposition in the chamber that caused over pressure problems. That is something that is warned in the revolvers and testing of the issue caused destruction of revolvers, I always scrub out the cylinders of my SRH after shooting a lot of 45Colt.
Good luck with the issue.
 
The 92 Winchester is an immensely strong design, for the cartridges it was intended to fire. I've experienced it myself, when I ringed the chamber of mine with an overload, and did no damage to the action at all. So, I doubt you have damaged the action. However, not all may be as it seems. I suggest you have it checked out to be sure. The Cassul is not a lightweight round. As to the rounds themselves, check with Winchester, see if there is s recall. The Casull is slightly longer than the Colt, and that is supposed to preventit's use in guns designed for the Colt. However, if your chamber was not cut quite long enough, it might still chamber the Casull, even though too short. This would lead to a tremendous pressure build up, and quite possibly a case separation like you experienced. Also, if the bullet is jammed into the lands, it could escalate pressure. Get a chamber cast done, find out if your chamber is long enough for what you are firing.

Then again, if you were shooting a lot of pure lead, you may have a severely leaded bore. Firing a high pressure jacketted round into a severely leaded bore will also raise pressure significantly.
 
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I had less than 20 Colts through it before hand, it didn't even occur to me. And yes, the rest of the Casulls were quitely returned to the range bag, I wasn't about to try that again! Let that be a lesson to all you kids at home!
The whole thing got me thinking anyway, with the extra cost of brass and all things with Casull stamped on it, I may just load hotter .45s- not to Casull specs obviously, but since the gun can take it, what can .45 colt cases take?
 
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I load about 24 grains of 2400 behind a 250 grain XTp on my 45 Colts if that helps, also, those little Pumas with 454 loads will knock the stuffin's out of ya. They are basically a low powered 45-70. I had problems with the winchester brass splittin in my SRH so I changed to the remington stuff and haven't had a problem since. Les

PS glad your okay, that could have been a lot worse.
 
Oddbawl said:
The whole thing got me thinking anyway, with the extra cost of brass and all things with Casull stamped on it, I may just load hotter .45s- not to Casull specs obviously, but since the gun can take it, what can .45 colt cases take?
Click to expand...

Most loading manuals have seperate sections for various strengths of 45 Colt guns.

SAA Colts, modern 6 shot revolvers and 5 shot revolvers.

I'd stick with the 6 shot data. WOrk up.:)
 
I know Caboose thought I was exaggerating the recoil, but that was all rifle! Does anybody have contact info for winchester?
 
You definitely need to hang onto the ammo until you hear from Winchester. They should give you a lifetime supply for your trauma. :D

If the chamber is cut short as Johnn Y C has suggested, Rossi should give more than just one new rifle. :D :D

In all seriousness, glad no one was hurt!

Ted
 
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I have also had factory Winchester loads brass split in my handguns but nothing like that.

My thoughts on Winchester is they are going to just state you used 45 Colt loads then the 454 Casull load not our problem.

I have fired hundreds of rounds thru my 454 20" barreled Puma M92 and have never had an issue like you did mind you I reload everything I shoot out of this rifle.

I load my 454 Casulls to extract perfectly from my Ruger Super Redhawks so am not loading the kinds of pressures that Freedom Arms handguns and supposedly Puma M92 rifles can handle which is the spec's that Winchester loads their 454 ammo too...

What 45 Colt ammo were you shooting?
 
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