.455 webley
- Thread starter tbl
- Start date
Paulinator
Regular
- Location
- Southwestern Ontario
Shooters Choice in Waterloo Ontario usually stocks some. Runs about $65 for 50.
I have found it many times at the local gun shows.
I have found it many times at the local gun shows.
Reloading is also a good option for older calibers like that.
Sportsman's Guide lists it. And from Wikipedia "The Italian firm Fiocchi is currently the only commercial manufacturer of the .455 Webley cartridge (in Mk II). The American firm Hornady produces equipment for reloading .455 Webley cartridges.
Curiously, despite the difference in designation, the .455 Webley was interchangeable with the .476 Enfield.[1]
"
265 grains. I love it. How about a pic of the rifle that shoots that.
Sportsman's Guide lists it. And from Wikipedia "The Italian firm Fiocchi is currently the only commercial manufacturer of the .455 Webley cartridge (in Mk II). The American firm Hornady produces equipment for reloading .455 Webley cartridges.
Curiously, despite the difference in designation, the .455 Webley was interchangeable with the .476 Enfield.[1]
"
265 grains. I love it. How about a pic of the rifle that shoots that.
- Location
- Pile of Bones, SK
Fiocchi ammo from European Arms Distributors in N. Vancouver.
Or ..... if it was actually the .476 Enfield you were referring to -
British Army service revolver from 1880 to 1887.... also the primary issue sidearm of the North West Mounted Police from 1883 to 1905. (Mine, shown above, was a NWMP-issue revolver.)
Despite nomenclature, all of the British military service revolver cartridges of the 19th century (i.e. .450 Adams, .476 Enfield, and .455 Webley) shot .455 caliber bullets.
Yes, .455 Colt is the old Webley Mk.1 case. It was longer for use with blackpowder. The Mk.2 case is shorter for smokeless loads. The Mk.1 or 2 on the ammo has no relation to the mark of the revolver. I shoot the .455 Colt cases in my Mk.6.
Okay. So, will .455 Colt ammunition hurt a Mk 1 or Mk 2 Webley?
I'd be rather leery of shooting smokeless .455 Colt rounds in a MkI or Mk II Webley, but as noted they will certainly fit, the Colt round being essentially a North American commercial designation for the MkI .455 British service revolver cartridge. Better to use rounds loaded with black powder, or a suitable substitute, in my view.
As for the RCMP question, I'm not sure from the inclusion of that question here if you are under the impression that they used Webley revolvers - they didn't, really - but the answer to your basic question is "yes". In mid-1905 the Force (then RNWMP) began distribution of the newly adopted Colt New Service revolvers chambered in .455, to replace the .476 Enfield revolvers in use since 1883. (Despite that nomenclature, the Enfield was really a .455 revolver, and the same ammunition could be used with the Colt.)
Later, when the RNWMP were amalgamated with the Dominion Police to become the RCMP in 1920, they apparently "inherited" a number of Dominion Police Colt New Service revolvers chambered in .45 Colt. I believe that these revolvers may have come to the Dominion Police from Militia Department stores, since that was the model and caliber that had been purchased to equip the Second and subsequent contingents of Canadian troops sent to South Africa for Boer War service at the turn of the century. Either that, or the fact that the .45 Colt New Service was the "military issue" handgun of the day had influenced what was acquired for issue to the Dominion Police.
At any rate, with a view to minimizing complications over ammunition issue, at that time it was decreed that the .455 revolvers would remain the standard issue in the former jurisdiction of the RNWMP (i.e. west of the Lakehead) and the .45 revolvers would be standard issue in the eastern part of the jurisdiction of the new national police force.
As for the RCMP question, I'm not sure from the inclusion of that question here if you are under the impression that they used Webley revolvers - they didn't, really - but the answer to your basic question is "yes". In mid-1905 the Force (then RNWMP) began distribution of the newly adopted Colt New Service revolvers chambered in .455, to replace the .476 Enfield revolvers in use since 1883. (Despite that nomenclature, the Enfield was really a .455 revolver, and the same ammunition could be used with the Colt.)
Later, when the RNWMP were amalgamated with the Dominion Police to become the RCMP in 1920, they apparently "inherited" a number of Dominion Police Colt New Service revolvers chambered in .45 Colt. I believe that these revolvers may have come to the Dominion Police from Militia Department stores, since that was the model and caliber that had been purchased to equip the Second and subsequent contingents of Canadian troops sent to South Africa for Boer War service at the turn of the century. Either that, or the fact that the .45 Colt New Service was the "military issue" handgun of the day had influenced what was acquired for issue to the Dominion Police.
At any rate, with a view to minimizing complications over ammunition issue, at that time it was decreed that the .455 revolvers would remain the standard issue in the former jurisdiction of the RNWMP (i.e. west of the Lakehead) and the .45 revolvers would be standard issue in the eastern part of the jurisdiction of the new national police force.
I don't think firing smokeless in a Mk.1 or 2 Webley would do any harm. Many of them were used with smokeless loads in service. Many of the older marks were also upgraded with larger cylinders, etc. for smokeless shooting. In the end, I guess it all comes down to the individual revolver. Another point, any ammo headstamped .455 Colt would be pretty ancient now, and should probably not be fired, anyway. I use the old cases, but I wouldn't fire the original ammo.
- Location
- Tucson, Arizona
I would just avoid fiocchi factory loads in a .455 in a Mk1 or Mk2 Webley. I found the recoil noticeably different than factory while firing that in a Mk6.
Lee Enfield
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Republic of Alberta
My 1919 RNWMP contract New Service is .45 Colt, and all of the 1930's contract N.S. I've seen are .45 Colt.
Having said that, I talked to a fellow on the weekend who claims to have a .455 N.S. which is post WWI.
I have now checked my references for clarification on this issue - in particular "Small Arms of the Mounted Police" (R. Phillips and S.J. Kirby, 1965) and "Arms & Accoutrements of the Mounted Police , 1873-1973" (R. Phillips and D. Klancher, 1982).
There is some apparent confusion in identification of calibers acquired, but my "best guess", based on both references, is:
1. All New Service Revolvers acquired by the Force up to and including 1914 were .455. Definitely all 700 purchased in 1904, and distributed in 1905, were .455 caliber. However, of a total of 650 which were sent in 1913-14 to Thomas Birkett & Son of Ottawa (most but not necessarily all of which were destined for the RNWMP) the first 250 are identified as .455. but for the other 400 (sent in 4 separate shipments during September of 1914) the caliber is not specifically identified in the detailed Appendix listings in "Arms & Accoutrements". They must also have been .455, however, since the main text indicates that the first .45 revolvers were ordered in 1919.
2. Subsequent New Service purchases by the RNWMP seem to have been almost entirely chambered in .45 Colt, starting with 100 revolvers shipped directly to the Force in July 1919. A total of 1,905 New Service revolvers are listed by serial number in purchases ranging from July 1919 through July 1942 (the final shipment.) In the Appendix, these revolver shipments are identified as .45 Colt or no caliber is specified.
3. However, apparently one last batch of 25 revolvers chambered in .455 were acquired by the RCMP in late 1932. Ironically, that particular shipment listing in the Appendix is identified as being ".45 Colt" but it was the only RCMP purchase of service revolvers between 1919 and 1932, about which the main text specifically states: "No more Colts were purchased until November 25, 1932, when 25 in .455 Eley calibre were shipped to the Ottawa headquarters of the RCMP. None of these, the last in that calibre bought by the Force, appear to have been stamped with issue numbers." Accordingly, I presume that the ".45 Colt" specified in the Appendix listing for these 25 revolvers is a typographical error.
The authors don't state this, but I would hazard a guess that this odd acquisition of a mere 25 revolvers at that time was to enable replacement of condemned revolvers on issue in Western detachments - i.e. so there wouldn't be one or two Members issued with .45 revolvers when everyone else in that detachment had .455's. Even so, considering that no new .455's had been acquired after 1914, I imagine that they had to be also issuing .45's out west, and that the best they could try to do would be to keep the caliber the same within a particular detachment or Division ....
Lee Enfield: the serial numbers of all 25 1932-purchase New Service revolvers are listed in the Appendix - ranging from 331931 to 332086. Any chance you can find out the serial number on the revolver owned by the fellow you mentioned? Would be interesting to see if it is listed.
While discussing Mounted Police .455 caliber revolvers, I should perhaps also expand a bit on my earlier statement about their use of Webley revolvers (i.e. "they didn't, really"....) My wording was equivocal on purpose because I recalled that a few Mark VI Webley revolvers had ended up in Mounted Police service after WWI. Phillips and Klancher mention them in passing, and do even illustrate one, but don't clarify how many there were (likely well below 50 in total, from 'reading between the lines') .... nor do they specify how they came to be used by the Force. Webley revolvers were not issued to Canadian military personnel during WWI (our troops used .45ACP M'1911 Colt pistols and .455 S&W "Hand Ejector" revolvers) but my other references do indicate that .455 Webley revolvers were used by some Canadian troops who served under British command echelons. In view of the fact that many RNWMP served during WWI, particularly in Provost capacities, perhaps these .455 Webleys came back with them ....
