#4mk1 continuing issues.... Thinking of changing stocks.

mikeystew

mikeystew

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I bedded my churchill sporterized enfield with a 22" floated barrel and ever since i did the groups have doubled at 100m. my accuracy loads went from sub 2" to over 4".

I've farted around with this thing long enough and tried barrel shimming, re bedded, checked for cracks etc, and im ready to put it away for good if it wasnt for the fact that it was a gift and i kinda feel bad for killing it's accuracy. I've accepted the fact that it was something i've done to it that did it in.

So short of someone reccomending a vancouver island enfield expert willing to fix it on the cheap... im thinking of putting it in a new stock set. Is it worth it? are there any reccomended sets that are better than others regarding the attainable accuracy? and is this something somebody who is half competant (which despite this obvious foul up i actually am) can do at home on an enfield? or is it a smith job to get it right?
 
... It might be worthwhile to try a little upward pressure at the end of the "Fore end".... Gasket Material if you've got it, or even a couple of folded over Business Cards to try things out. .... The pressure point can be adjusted back toward the receiver if the tip, upwards shim, doesn't work. ..... David K
 
Do you have a collar (sleeve) under the front mounting screw? Take the stock off and shot a goup to see if it makes a difference. Floating No4 barrels leads to accuracy problems. Needs to have 6 - 8 pounds of uplift at the tip. King or mounting screw has to be snug. Is the tip of the stock loose?
Too bad you're not closer I'd look at it for you. Ron
 
yeah i tried using exactly that, gasket material in multiple configurations of thickness and position from the tip... no dice.

rgg7 the mounting screw does have a collar yes and the forend is good and snug. the screw is torqued snug but not overly tight, although i should mention i have tried it at numerous degrees of torque and it shot bad from loose to superman tight.
 
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I've never found the shim under the barrel tip to be effective. Cork, paper etc all compress with time. If you have some blacking compound (alternatives...lip stick, light grease) put some a couple inches at the tip and the action area including the barrel knox. Tighten the stock as you have it now and see where it contacts. You need 100% contact under the mounting screw and the barrel knox. If you have it here then the barrel tip has to have the same plus the uplift pressure. You could be rubbing one side of the stock....loose in the stock or damaged the crown depending on the cleaning. I'm assuming you're using the same loads all through this exercise. Just a few things to look at. If in the stock you can correct with bedding compound or wood shims scrapped back to contact like the old days. Ron
 
Any Enfield received at Holland & Holland for conversion to a No.4 Mk.1 (T) sniper rifle that didn't have the required 2 to 7 pounds of up pressure at the fore end tip was rejected outright and sent back to their owning organisations.

A standard Remington 700 has 3 to 9 pounds of up pressure at the fore end tip.

Up pressure at the fore end tip controls barrel vibrations and thus accuracy, on the military bedded Enfield the amount of up pressure was used to tune the rifle and make it shoot better with issued military ammunition. With modern bullets and powders the "tuning" pressure may fall out of military specifications and normally it would be higher.

The photo below gave me more insight into Enfield bedding than any other bedding photo or illustration. Below is a Australian range rifle with the standard military copper recoil blocks on the forward area of the draws. Normally the copper blocks are all that is used to "push" the rear of the stock into contact with the receiver socket.

Below the copper blocks are two added screws that are threaded into the receiver socket, these two screws "pull" the rear of the stock into tight firm contact with the receiver socket, and also align the the barrel in the barrel channel.(steering)

And now the "piece de resistance", above the copper blocks are two light colored shims approximately .025 thick. These two shim support the underside of the receiver and "prevent" upward movement.

If the rear of the fore stock moves upward the fore end tip moves downward and you loose up pressure. The bottom line here is wood shrinkage, changes in humidity and temperature have less effect because the rear of the stock draws area is unable to move or shift up and down.

The draws area acts like the missing second stock bedding screw and it "must" be kept "tight" to maintain accuracy.

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Up pressure controls barrel vibrations. ;) please click on link http://www.ozfclass.com/articles/1/psm_2005_03.html

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Part two

A loose fore stock will cause the Enfield to string its shots vertically, a loose butt stock will cause the groups to string horizontally.

The Enfield was to have raw linseed oil applied monthly, if the wood dries out over time you get wood shrinkage and then the draws area gets loose and the front trigger guard screw bushing-collar becomes too long.

The front trigger guard screw is the fulcrum or pivot point of the fore stock and if the stock gets loose it can rock just like a kids teeter totter.

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Below are before and after photos fired by the same Enfield rifle, in the top photo is the first time I shot this rifle and it suffered from wood shrinkage. The forward trigger guard screw bushing was to long and the rear draws area was "loose". And this allowed the fore stock to "rock" up and down and string is shots vertically.

The trigger guard bushing was made shorter and hard Formica shims were added to the forward area of the draws. Shimming the draws pushed the stock into contact with the receiver socket and tightened the entire fore stock into a "ridged" non-moving piece of wood.


Both targets were at 50 yards and the bottom target is 10 rounds.
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Great post Ed! You should have been a teacher...;)

bigedp51 said:
Part two

A loose fore stock will cause the Enfield to string its shots vertically, a loose butt stock will cause the groups to string horizontally.

The Enfield was to have raw linseed oil applied monthly, if the wood dries out over time you get wood shrinkage and then the draws area gets loose and the front trigger guard screw bushing-collar becomes too long.

etc.
Click to expand...
 
I cannot improve on what biged has said. Yes it looks overly complicated because it is. One of the issues when you only have one action screw. You MUST pay attention to the draws. For all intent and purpose the draws is your second action screw. If the bearing surfaces are not flush and even your rifle will not shoot well. Peter Laidler (retired British weapons tech) has written an excellent article on the draws located on www.milsurp.com

I repeat, read what Ed has written here. All very good information.
 
By the way, here's some additional articles that may help ... ;)

With thanks to member tbonesmith, we have added a series of eleven old archived posts to ….

Index of Peter Laidler's series of formal Knowledge Library articles and selected archived posts ... (click here)http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=16948

Barrel Manufacture & Alignment
Breeching Up
Butt & Wood Fitting
Cartridge Headspace (CHS)
Cocking Bent & Sear - Parts 1-3
Fitting a Fore End Correctly
Fitting Rifle Bolts - CHS and Boltheads
FORESIGHTS and the No4 rifle
Safety Catch and Bolt Locking
Trigger Pull Off
No.5 Wandering Zero (The Facts)
Click to expand...

Also, Ian Skennerton indicated he's preparing to add some additional interesting content to post on our shared project ...

Regards,
Badger
 
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