50-70 Bullet size question

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sampson.d.ramm

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Finally got my 50-70 Swedish rollingblock - thoroughly cleaned the barrel, it slugged at .457/.512

My question is, will a .515 bullet mold be acceptable, or will the bullet have to be run thru a sizer?

As well, I was thinking of a bullet weight of 450 or 500 grain...will this work as a starting point, or does anyone have any suggestions based on experience with these guns.

Will large rifle primers work ok or are LR magnum primers necessary?

BTW, plan to use black powder only.

Any feedback or advice would be appreciated.

Thank You.
 
sampson.d.ramm said:
Finally got my 50-70 Swedish rollingblock - thoroughly cleaned the barrel, it slugged at .457/.512

My question is, will a .515 bullet mold be acceptable, or will the bullet have to be run thru a sizer?

As well, I was thinking of a bullet weight of 450 or 500 grain...will this work as a starting point, or does anyone have any suggestions based on experience with these guns.

Will large rifle primers work ok or are LR magnum primers necessary?

BTW, plan to use black powder only.

Any feedback or advice would be appreciated.

Thank You.
Click to expand...

What is .457/.512? I don't see how either number could possible relate to each other in anyway. Are you saying the grooves are cut 0.0275" deep?

A .515 lead bullet is fine. Might want to size it for uniformity and accuracy, but it'll shoot just fine as is. Keep in mind that seating a .003 oversize bullet may expand the case enough to prevent easy seating of the cartridge in the chamber.
 
Blastattack said:
What is .457/.512? I don't see how either number could possible relate to each other in anyway. Are you saying the grooves are cut 0.0275" deep?
Click to expand...

Lands .475 grooves .512 - measurements I got from slugging the barrel.

I will be shooting soft lead (wheel weights with nothing added)

Right now the new starline brass will chamber "as is", both for length and diameter and the resulting slug I got from the bore is quite loose in the new case.

I do plan to do a chamber cast to see what the exact measurement is.

Thank you for your reply.
 
we slugged Joe's and the measurements are about par ,also the bullet is 6 sided (hexagon) and he is using soft lead not wheel weights and is cutting clover leafs at 50 yards (hes 76) and is very pleased
he is using a lyman mold 515 at 450 gr round nose .( we purchased the rifle off a kind CGNER from Moose Jaw sask aprox a month ago)
 
I suspect that bullets at the lighter end of choices will be most accurate; the 50-70s are made from 50 caliber rimfires and I would expect those to have relatively short bullets. You can check by using a tight patch on a ramrod to measure the twist rate of your barrel and then applying the Greenhill formula for maximum bullet length. Length = 150 diameter squared over twist ---- everything in inches

cheers mooncoon
 
My old Swedish 12.7X44R slugged out like yours, with the bullet swaging itself hexagonal due to the extremely deep grooves/tall lands.
I shot mine using very soft cast bullets, from both a Lee 515-450 mould at nominal 450gr., and a Lyman 515141 mould at a nominal 425gr. Both bullets gave good accuracy, though you might find wheel weight lead a little too hard.
I used to lube-size mine to 0.512" using SPG Lube, and both bullets performed well over Goex Cartridge black-powder. I don't remember what weight of powder I used, but I did use Magnum large rifle primers. I also formed the cases from .348 Winchester brass.
If you are trying to avoid the sizing process I'd suggest trying to get pure lead, then hand-lube them using a specific black-powder lube and shoot them at their as-cast diameter, as long as they will chamber at that diameter.
If you can't get pure lead, I'd hand-lube and shoot them anyway.
 
mooncoon said:
I suspect that bullets at the lighter end of choices will be most accurate; the 50-70s are made from 50 caliber rimfires and I would expect those to have relatively short bullets. You can check by using a tight patch on a ramrod to measure the twist rate of your barrel and then applying the Greenhill formula for maximum bullet length. Length = 150 diameter squared over twist ---- everything in inches

cheers mooncoon
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I have to remember this rifle is not a "true Remington" 50-70 but a Swedish manufactured 12.7 X 44 rechambered to 50-70, when asking for feedback.

Using the very limited available data (mostly German / Swedish forums), the twist rate of a 12.7X44 seems to be approx 1:28"

The barrel on mine, as measured is 29 3/4" and when I look I can see 1 full twist, ending almost to the end of my barrel , so this seems very close. (Cant do the cleaning rod thing, but that will be cured soon enough).

There seems to be a mind boggling amount of similarities and differences with these rifles. Each one seems unique...

An excerpt from a "Wolfe`s, Loading the 50-70 government"...Rifling twist rates for .50-70s are also interesting. Trapdoor Springfields used a 42-inch twist, but the Sharps Rifle Company started out with a 48-inch twist that was later tightened to one turn in 36 inches. Remington also used the 42-inch twist but made some .50-70s with very tight 24-inch twist rates".

No mention of the Swede rollers in there...

Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply.
 
My Swedish Roller shoots the Lee 450 gr 0.515" bullet much better than its heavier sister. Keeping the MV down to about 1200 fps, in the right light you can watch the bullet arc to the target at distances greater than 100 yds.
 
For those with 50-70 rolling blocks, I found that a Loverin style bullet was quite a bit more accurate that the government profile. The Loverin bullet carries its diameter farther forward and the bullet is much closer to touching the rifling. The rolling block barrel that I have, has a fairly long chamber or throat and I couldn't seat the government profile far enough out with the result of poor accuracy

cheers mooncoon
 
Some good advice above.
If the twist is that fast you might be able to coax good results from longer bullets but I suspect that the shorter ones others have said work well would kick enough for most people. Bigger might be better for long range if you want to get into that.

As far as primers go, it used to be common practice to use magnum rifle for black powder cartridge rifles but more lately many shooters have gone to large pistol and sometimes even inserting a paper disk in the primer pocket. The theory as I understand it is that a hot primer will jump the bullet ahead before the powder ignites and can be inconsistent. Some people crimp for the same reason. Real black powder like Goex or Swiss is really easy to ignite so I don't see a need for magnum primers but have never experimented with the difference.

Best of luck with your new toy. Let us know how it goes once you start throwing lead.
 
The issue with loverin style bullets is not their length but rather that they have a shorter blunter nose shape which puts the full diameter closer to the rifling. It made a big difference in accuracy in my gun

Mooncoon
 
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mooncoon said:
The rolling block barrel that I have, has a fairly long chamber or throat and I couldn't seat the government profile far enough out with the result of poor accuracy
cheers mooncoon
Click to expand...

Just loaded a bunch last nite with the 450 gr. Did some measuring and test fitting and I to am also finding i cannot seat to the "published" overall length (too short). After progressively seating and testing (combined with my measurements) an overall length of 2.42 (.005 off the groove) will chamber nicely however the top lube groove is exposed.

I may indeed have to try the 500 gr for the extra distance.
 
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