556x45/.223 Lee Enfield long term project.

LeeEnfieldNo.4_mk1

LeeEnfieldNo.4_mk1

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I have been looking for a decent bolt action repeater in 556/.223 for a while and honestly I gave up as nothing caught my eye, or met my criteria of a rifle that is top loading, iron sites with aperture rear sights and actually looks decent. closest was the Mossberg MVP, but its either a varmint style rifle with no irons, or dolled up in tacticool nonsense with open sights.

Then, after browsing another thread I realized that a rifle that met that criteria, although in a different caliber, was the No.4 Enfield.

The reason I am interested in this project is the No.4 rifle is my favorite rifle, and .223 is cheap to buy, and even with reloading, .303 can be pricey. Also, .223 would be a nice light shooting caliber in an enfield.

I know this has come up before, and I know it is possible and has been done for single shot target rifles, but here are my goals:
-Be chambered to allow both .223 and .556 caliber ammunition
-Be a repeater with either a fixed, or detachable magazine.
-Maintain the standard No.4 appearance as much as possible.

At the time of this writing, I have had the idea for about an hour and I really like the concept. And my mind has been going over how it can be done.

So far my plan is:

Find a sacrificial No.4. Obviously a Sporter is in order and sporters with cut down, sewer pipe barrels but solid actions can easily be found.

Then have a new barrel cut, I am thinking of a "shot out" target barrel or a barrel machined from a blank. I don't know what would be cheaper since both cases would involve the barrel to be re-profiled to the No.4 profile.

For the Bolt head, I have found the website of a company in Sussex that manufactures No.4 bolt heads for 556/223. I this fails, I understand that a standard No.4 bolt head can be machined to work.

For the magazine, I might be able to modify the follower from a ten round AR15 pistol magazine to fit inside a .303 Enfield Magazine. This would maintain the profile and would allow the standard magazine retention system to be maintained, as well as preserving the Standard No.4 profile. I just happen to have a No.4 magazine that has the feed lips mashed beyond serviceability. This would require some modifications to both components. The feed lips of the .303 would have to be either tweaked, or cut off and replaced. In addition, a spacer with a built in "feed ramp extension" will most likely have to be added to take up the space form the shorter .223 round as well as help guide the round to the chamber. The magazine to me is going to be tricky as in order to meet my requirement of a top loading capable magazine, the mag will most likely need to be double stack, but still be thin enough to be inserted into the enfield action with as little modification to the action as possible.

Now, I am not a gun smith, I have a concept but I need a qualified smith, and input form those more knowledgeable then I am. This is a long term project as well, I'm not expecting to be plinking with this rifle this upcoming spring or anything, but something I might work on over the next few years or so.

I know this will be a very tricky project, but the concept to me is worth doing.

Thanks for reading.
 
this is definitely a very interesting project and I was thinking, the magazine wouldn't be too difficult to get working, I don't think. What I would do instead of taking the follower from and ar15 mag is I would take the No4 mag and use it as a type of sleeve for the ar mag. Granted it would take a bit of finessing to get them to fit together but it wouldn't be much.
 
I was thinking this same thing. If positioned at the rear of the Enfield mag, about 2/3 of the AR mag should slide into the shell of the enfield magazine. My botched mag is not with me at the moment but once I get it I'll start tinkering.

Lucite said:
this is definitely a very interesting project and I was thinking, the magazine wouldn't be too difficult to get working, I don't think. What I would do instead of taking the follower from and ar15 mag is I would take the No4 mag and use it as a type of sleeve for the ar mag. Granted it would take a bit of finessing to get them to fit together but it wouldn't be much.
Click to expand...
 
If MONEY is the crux of the matter, why not simply reduce your ammo bill to $2.50 a box.... and keep on shooting .303s?

The C.E. Harris UNIVERSAL LOAD FOR MILITARY RIFLES can br craked out on basic handloading equipment for that price, or even a bit less if you don't want gas-checks. You are looking at 8 to 9 cents a shot without the gas check, 12 cents with it; most rifles, truth to tell, will shoot better with the gas-check.

That gives you a load which is accurate enough to snipe Gophers with out to 300 yards. That is exactly what friend BUFFDOG does with these things. TINMAN204 also is getting excellent results, including MOA groups out to 200.

The VELOCITY and hence the MUZZLE ENERGY is LOW, but for shooting bits of paper and pop cans, you don't need or want heavy loads, anyway. RECOIL is very nearly non-existent and BORE WEAR does not even seem to exist; your Barrel will last halfway to forever.

The HARRIS LOAD is 13 (thirteen) grains of RED DOT shotgun powder behind a 180-grain CAST bullet. Seating is as normal: 3.05" OAL, same as a Ball round. No wad or filler is required.

Give it a try. At 2 rounds for a stainless-steel quarter, it's the best game in town..... and it's a quarter the price of .223!
 
I think you can get a complete rifle from Australia and it feeds from ar15 magazines. You could also just order the parts.
No 4 223 rifles have been in use there for many years.
 
Thanks for the bit of info, I might try it for my .303. However I still want to pursue the .223 project, Cost was one of the factors, but I like the idea, and its shaping up to be an interesting project.

smellie said:
If MONEY is the crux of the matter, why not simply reduce your ammo bill to $2.50 a box.... and keep on shooting .303s?

The C.E. Harris UNIVERSAL LOAD FOR MILITARY RIFLES can br craked out on basic handloading equipment for that price, or even a bit less if you don't want gas-checks. You are looking at 8 to 9 cents a shot without the gas check, 12 cents with it; most rifles, truth to tell, will shoot better with the gas-check.

That gives you a load which is accurate enough to snipe Gophers with out to 300 yards. That is exactly what friend BUFFDOG does with these things. TINMAN204 also is getting excellent results, including MOA groups out to 200.

The VELOCITY and hence the MUZZLE ENERGY is LOW, but for shooting bits of paper and pop cans, you don't need or want heavy loads, anyway. RECOIL is very nearly non-existent and BORE WEAR does not even seem to exist; your Barrel will last halfway to forever.

The HARRIS LOAD is 13 (thirteen) grains of RED DOT shotgun powder behind a 180-grain CAST bullet. Seating is as normal: 3.05" OAL, same as a Ball round. No wad or filler is required.

Give it a try. At 2 rounds for a stainless-steel quarter, it's the best game in town..... and it's a quarter the price of .223!
Click to expand...
 
Anyone have links or a direction I can go for as I am looking to buy/making a 223/5.556 rifle as 303 is too much calibre for myself after getting sick. Such as the Australian connection. I know there was a British gunsmith who was making bolt heads and barrels, but I got no reply from him.
R711 OUT
 
There were a number of #4 223 rifles made in Canada for DCRA target shooting. Getting one of those would be a good start.

The barrel would be fat, but it is easy to turn down the last "4" so it looks 'normal" coming out of the wood. Mine was not only turned down, but the bayonet lugs were machined in, too.

The 303 extractor can be modified to extract. Ejection would be a challenge. For Target Rifle we never worried about ejection, since we shot single shot. maybe a stiffer ejector spring would do the trick.

As for getting a mag insert to feed - that would be a fun challenge. Maybe someone makes a conversion mag unit.

Heavy barrel turned down near the muzzle. Note the bayonet lug.
comparator015.jpg



Top one is fake, made out of a heavy target barrel.
comparator020.jpg
 
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I am still working on mine. I had a machinist friend rethread a 223 barrel from a Stevens 200 to fit a No4 action and he also made a locknut for the barrel.
The barrel is installed and headspaced, single shot right now. Extractor works but I still haven`t figured out an ejector. The bolthead from England cost about $260 Canadian. I`m still trying to find a way to drill a No4 bolt head for the ejector pin but they are super hard. I have a single stack magazines that I figure I can fit inside the original Lee Enfield mag and hold 4-5 rounds
 
That looks awesome, how common are these?

Ganderite said:
There were a number of #4 223 rifles made in Canada for DCRA target shooting. Getting one of those would be a good start.

The barrel would be fat, but it is easy to turn down the last "4" so it looks 'normal" coming out of the wood. Mine was not only turned down, but the bayonet lugs were machined in, too.

The 303 extractor can be modified to extract. Ejection would be a challenge. For Target Rifle we never worried about ejection, since we shot single shot. maybe a stiffer ejector spring would do the trick.

As for getting a mag insert to feed - that would be a fun challenge. Maybe someone makes a conversion mag unit.

Heavy barrel turned down near the muzzle. Note the bayonet lug.
comparator015.jpg



Top one is fake, made out of a heavy target barrel.
comparator020.jpg
Click to expand...
 
your project is very do able ,you should be looking for a take off varmint barrel at the gunsmiths. are you going to shoot light bullets or heavy? rate of twist ? 1/14 1/9 1/7
any good gunsmith should be able to do the work, to the barrel and bolt face . you will want to do a plunger type ejector.
anyway one of the dcra fellows here has one. with 1/14 twist . he might be talked into selling it as he has not shot it in years .if some one wants me to check drop me a pm.
 
gerard488 said:
I am still working on mine. I had a machinist friend rethread a 223 barrel from a Stevens 200 to fit a No4 action and he also made a locknut for the barrel.
The barrel is installed and headspaced, single shot right now. Extractor works but I still haven`t figured out an ejector. The bolthead from England cost about $260 Canadian. I`m still trying to find a way to drill a No4 bolt head for the ejector pin but they are super hard. I have a single stack magazines that I figure I can fit inside the original Lee Enfield mag and hold 4-5 rounds
Click to expand...

this it one of the issues that I am still thinking about, modifying the bolt head for a plunger type ejector.

perhaps a small carbide bit might work
 
So has anyone any links etc. I have found one in the UK but won't reply. I'm looking for both the Barrel and bolt head. Any Ideas suggestions etc? Also I am looking for a monte carlo stock for the No4 to give it a more of a target rifle/sniper rifle look.
R711 OUT
 
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