.577 source?
- Thread starter tex_on_the_trigger
- Start date
Get your gun before you settle on a mould size. IME, and, I'm sure, that of many here, bore sizes on the various marks and models of Sniders vary considerably. My three-band rifle is way oversize at .585" but my two-bander is a whopping .590".
Do a bore cast from Cerrosafe or similar, and get a mould to suit. The same goes for the Enfield, whatever model it is. Again, my three-bander likes the standard Lyman .575etc with a thin skirt, but the Musketoon prefers a .580".
The bullet for the Snider is also quite different from the Minié of the Enfield, but I'm sure you knew that, as it weighs only ~.480gr. By comparison, the Enfield service load bullet [usually] weighs in at 535gr and uses 2.5drams [68gr of FRP/FFg].
However, feel free to ignore me - there are far more Snider shooters in Canada than there are in UK, and I'm sure that better information will come thick and fast.
tac
Do a bore cast from Cerrosafe or similar, and get a mould to suit. The same goes for the Enfield, whatever model it is. Again, my three-bander likes the standard Lyman .575etc with a thin skirt, but the Musketoon prefers a .580".
The bullet for the Snider is also quite different from the Minié of the Enfield, but I'm sure you knew that, as it weighs only ~.480gr. By comparison, the Enfield service load bullet [usually] weighs in at 535gr and uses 2.5drams [68gr of FRP/FFg].
However, feel free to ignore me - there are far more Snider shooters in Canada than there are in UK, and I'm sure that better information will come thick and fast.
tac
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My experience is that you will need a .590" bullet or ball for the Snider and a .577" or smaller for the Enfield. The reason for this is obvious.... In the Snider cartridge a groove filling bullet is needed while, in the Enfield, you need a bullet of a diameter which will load from the muzzle....naked. I have found that a .590" ball is the easiest to load and the most accurate in the Snider, especially in the slow 1:72 inch twist of the three band rifle. The Enfield needs a bullet which will expand the groove size upon firing but is small enough to push in from the muzzle in both clean bore and fouled. Good luck, Dave.......if you were down the road I would give you an assortment to try.
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
yeah common bullets in the snider run .585"-.595" for conical with a 20/1 lead/tin alloy and round ball .858"-.600" in pure lead. the twist rate will determine bullet length 3 groove rifles are 1 in 78" and like short conicals and round balls and 5 groove rifles are 1 in 48" twist and can take a bullet longer/heavier then what the cartridge/gun can handle
I'm not sure of any sources for proper snider bullets in Canada.
In my 3 band snider I shoot patched .58 cal hornaday round balls. I buy them at WSS in Winnipeg. I patch them with a bore butter lubed patch and then load them with 70 gr of FFg into a 24g shot hull cut back to around 2".
That's how I started my snider shooting, I was in the same boat and just wanted to shoot the rifle. The patched .58 cal round balls are pretty accurate @100 yards in my rifle.
In my 3 band snider I shoot patched .58 cal hornaday round balls. I buy them at WSS in Winnipeg. I patch them with a bore butter lubed patch and then load them with 70 gr of FFg into a 24g shot hull cut back to around 2".
That's how I started my snider shooting, I was in the same boat and just wanted to shoot the rifle. The patched .58 cal round balls are pretty accurate @100 yards in my rifle.
I've got a couple of Sniders that I cast my own bullets for. NO, I don't really enjoy casting enough to want to do it for anyone else.
Yes, there is a market for the bullets, albeit small.
At first, I tried some solid cast bullets that were a few thou larger than the diameter of my bores. This created problems because the chamber was to small in diameter to accept those bullets and I had to thin the case necks so the cases would fit. Just another pain in the butt.
Solid bullets are not the answer.
You need hollow base bullets with a clay (auto body Bondo) plug. They don't necessarily have to be soft lead either. The British and colonies did use pure soft lead though. I haven't found an original round that is in bad enough shape to take down, so I can't tell you whether or not they had plugs in the skirts of their bullets. I know they used hollow based bullets.
Their reason for doing so is simple. When the cartridge is fired, the pressure from the burning powder pushes the plug into the base of the bullet and causes the skirts to expand into the rifling, thereby giving good contact as well as a good seal for consistency.
The hollow base mold is still available for the 577 diameter cartridge.
I would also like to find molds for the 38 Webley and 455 Webley cartridges, with hollow base capacity. Sadly, no one makes them anymore, not even by special order.
One thing to remember, the old antique class firearms were made one at a time, by hand labor. Very few of the parts are interchangeable. Some of the later made pieces, like the Webley pistols do have some parts that are interchangeable but not many and even those are hand fitted.
All of the bores are different from one another. They are close enough but it would have been a nightmare for the manufacturers at the time to make the excellent barrels that were available by the turn of the 20th century. Even those were not consistent but much better than those on the old black powder firearms made for military purposes.
There are lots of different methods to get brass. You can buy Bertram, which is made in Australia and can be found on the internet. They come with modern, single hole primer pockets and will reload for a long time. Most people either just use FFG or FG black powder but some use a duplex load including Hs6 or some other fast pistol powder over the primer and a compressed load of black powder. Black powder really likes to be compressed or it will not ignite in a SAFE consistent manner. If there is to much air in the case, it literally will cause a small detonation and maybe ruin your firearm and injure you.
Go to the Snider Collector sites and there will be a ton of information for your searches.
Yes, there is a market for the bullets, albeit small.
At first, I tried some solid cast bullets that were a few thou larger than the diameter of my bores. This created problems because the chamber was to small in diameter to accept those bullets and I had to thin the case necks so the cases would fit. Just another pain in the butt.
Solid bullets are not the answer.
You need hollow base bullets with a clay (auto body Bondo) plug. They don't necessarily have to be soft lead either. The British and colonies did use pure soft lead though. I haven't found an original round that is in bad enough shape to take down, so I can't tell you whether or not they had plugs in the skirts of their bullets. I know they used hollow based bullets.
Their reason for doing so is simple. When the cartridge is fired, the pressure from the burning powder pushes the plug into the base of the bullet and causes the skirts to expand into the rifling, thereby giving good contact as well as a good seal for consistency.
The hollow base mold is still available for the 577 diameter cartridge.
I would also like to find molds for the 38 Webley and 455 Webley cartridges, with hollow base capacity. Sadly, no one makes them anymore, not even by special order.
One thing to remember, the old antique class firearms were made one at a time, by hand labor. Very few of the parts are interchangeable. Some of the later made pieces, like the Webley pistols do have some parts that are interchangeable but not many and even those are hand fitted.
All of the bores are different from one another. They are close enough but it would have been a nightmare for the manufacturers at the time to make the excellent barrels that were available by the turn of the 20th century. Even those were not consistent but much better than those on the old black powder firearms made for military purposes.
There are lots of different methods to get brass. You can buy Bertram, which is made in Australia and can be found on the internet. They come with modern, single hole primer pockets and will reload for a long time. Most people either just use FFG or FG black powder but some use a duplex load including Hs6 or some other fast pistol powder over the primer and a compressed load of black powder. Black powder really likes to be compressed or it will not ignite in a SAFE consistent manner. If there is to much air in the case, it literally will cause a small detonation and maybe ruin your firearm and injure you.
Go to the Snider Collector sites and there will be a ton of information for your searches.
h ttp://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?166597-455-Webley-hollow-base-(HB)-MK-II-in-4-cavity-brass-Cramer-mould&p=2383022#post2383022
i bought one of these for my webley, nice mould.
Where are you? Makes some difference.
Find a source of brass first. Be prepared for some sticker shock too. .577 Snider brass ain't cheap. Bertram runs $134.95 per 20 at Shooter's Choice in Waterloo, Ont.
"...Do a bore cast from Cerrosafe..." No need for that. Not likely to get the Cerrosafe out either. Just slug the barrel.
"...my minnie balls..." Isn't the same thing. And if Track of the Wolf is exporting loading components, they're doing so illegally. Not your problem, of course.
Find a source of brass first. Be prepared for some sticker shock too. .577 Snider brass ain't cheap. Bertram runs $134.95 per 20 at Shooter's Choice in Waterloo, Ont.
"...Do a bore cast from Cerrosafe..." No need for that. Not likely to get the Cerrosafe out either. Just slug the barrel.
"...my minnie balls..." Isn't the same thing. And if Track of the Wolf is exporting loading components, they're doing so illegally. Not your problem, of course.
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
most chambers will work with a soild base bullet of at least .585" some are tight though. my snider in the only rifle I use 24ga magtech brass in its thin at the mouth and can take quite a big bullet and still fit the chamber.
biggest problem with minie balls is they are made to be used through the muzzle so they are under sized a plug may help but you have to remember we are pushing tem from a cartridge into the rifling we want a seal and rifling engagement as soon as possible. and if its a 3 grove bore it will like short bullets and round balls because its a slower twist
biggest problem with minie balls is they are made to be used through the muzzle so they are under sized a plug may help but you have to remember we are pushing tem from a cartridge into the rifling we want a seal and rifling engagement as soon as possible. and if its a 3 grove bore it will like short bullets and round balls because its a slower twist
Here in uK the Henry Krank company sells Bertram Snider cases for £4.60 each. Take off the 20% VAT/GST makes them £3.68. Seems to be about the same price... Mine are the very old NDFS turned brass cases, at least twenty years old now and so far still good to go. Two have split out of the forty I bought way back then.
tac
303EppsFan
CGN Regular
- Location
- Almonte,Ontario
If you're in Ontario R&R Bullets sells a Snider bullet. A Google search will find a PDF catalogue. I ordered 24 gauge brass from Buffalo Arms which is legally imported to make cases and is far more affordable.
Don't mind Sunray...he swoops in, poops and flies away often.
Rayner'shine (IIRC) sold me a box of magtech 24 brass for under 30$. I think the Fiochi low brass hulls are an easier way to get your feet wet, though.
I picked up a .577 HB 530 gr mold ( RCBS) which seems to work OK; though truth be told I can't post accuracy claims, as the bbl on mine had the sights cannibalized long ago.
But one thing at a time.
It's the journey not the destination
Rayner'shine (IIRC) sold me a box of magtech 24 brass for under 30$. I think the Fiochi low brass hulls are an easier way to get your feet wet, though.
I picked up a .577 HB 530 gr mold ( RCBS) which seems to work OK; though truth be told I can't post accuracy claims, as the bbl on mine had the sights cannibalized long ago.
But one thing at a time.
It's the journey not the destination
I can recommend the Paradox bullet mould from KAL tool and die. Love it. Saves on lead and is the proper diameter to engage rifling on the 3-band long rifles.
I back the bullet by 65gn of Goex FFG, kapok, and a lie cookie between 2 cards. I also use reformed CBC 24 gauge brass.
I back the bullet by 65gn of Goex FFG, kapok, and a lie cookie between 2 cards. I also use reformed CBC 24 gauge brass.
