Kamikaze11
CGN Regular
- Location
- Gatineau Qc
Best one and why ?
Shooting under 500 yard f
And any suggestion for a stag 10 quality barel ?
Shooting under 500 yard f
And any suggestion for a stag 10 quality barel ?
6.5 creedmores vs 308
- Thread starter Kamikaze11
- Start date
Under 500 yards? 308 will do everything the Creedmoor will do to that distance. I don't think most shooters stretch things out far enough to take advantage of the benefits of the 6.5 Creedmoor.
Quality barrel? IBI 19" standard profile if your looking for a great barrel with a good balance of price/performance.
If you reload, they are comparable.... I run both... have not got 6.5 to level of accuracy of the 308. That said I have only shot is a couple thousand rounds of 6.5 vs 20 000 308. Keep in mind 6.5 is generally more statically "better" until weather and person come into play. My go to for long range, 308, next Creedmoor. Just my experience so far but I have the 6.5 bug....
It depends on how long the BBL is. If you crunch the numbers through a calculator, you can see a trend.
I went through the exercise awhile ago, my conclusion is that 20" and under go 308, over 20" go 6.5
That's why .277 Sig Fury will be the rage for short bbl in the future.
I went through the exercise awhile ago, my conclusion is that 20" and under go 308, over 20" go 6.5
That's why .277 Sig Fury will be the rage for short bbl in the future.
I didn't know about it, kind of a Nosler spin on selling I gess here is the math...
In early October 2018 the Army issued a DRAFT Prototype Opportunity Notice (PON) for Next Generation Squad Weapons (NGSW). The draft NGSW PON detailed “how the Government intends to award up to three prototype Other Transaction Agreements (OTAs), with each Offeror developing two weapon variants and a common cartridge for both weapons, utilizing Government provided 6.8 millimeter projectiles. The weapons include the Next Generation Squad Weapon-Rifle (NGSW-R) and the Next Generation Squad Weapon-Automatic Rifle (NGSW-AR),” according to fbo.gov. “The NGSW-R is the planned replacement for the M4/M4A1 Carbine and the NGSW-AR is the planned replacement for the M249 Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW) in the Automatic Rifleman Role in Brigade Combat Teams (BCT).”
Initially, five companies were selected by the NGSAR program to produce six prototypes: AAI Corporation Textron Systems; FN America LLC; General Dynamics-OTS Inc.; PCP Tactical, LLC; and SIG Sauer, Inc. FN America was allowed to produce two prototypes.
Currently, SIG is moving forward with civilian versions of its 6.8mm cartridge developed for the competition, the 277 SIG Fury. This cartridge utilizes a hybrid case technology made from brass and other materials. The combination is rated to handle 80,000 psi of chamber pressure. By comparison, “magnum” cartridges typically produce a maximum of 62,000 psi.
277 SIG Fury Ballistics
This added pressure will drive a 135-grain bullet from SIG’s Hybrid Match cartridge 3,000 fps from a 16-inch barrel, and produce 2,694 ft.-lbs. of energy. The 135-grain bullet has a respectable .488 G1 BC.
SIG’s 277 Fury Hybrid Hunting load features a 140-grain bullet with a .508 G1 BC, launching from a 16-inch barrel at 2,950 fps. That one produces 2,706 ft.-lbs. of muzzle energy, too.
One of the benefits of creating hybrid case technology for SIG is that the case is 20-percent lighter in weight for a loaded cartridge than a standard brass-cased cartridge. The 277 SIG Fury maintains “decreased failure rates in the most vulnerable element of the case” through its “commercialization of ‘Military Technology,'” according to company experts. The end result becomes “increased range and lethality … flatter shooting … and better performance in shorter than average barrel lengths (which) reduce the overall length and weight of the firearm.”
These cartridges will be available in 2020. Additionally, SIG and other companies should offer rifles to handle these hot new rounds. For more information, please visit sigsauer.com.
These threads are funny. Which is better, 6.5 creed or .308? 6.5 Creed is better in every way than .308 except for barrel life. Depending on what your accuracy requirements are, you'll get about 3000 rds out of the 6.5. Seeing as most people don't normally shoot 3000 rds a year, I wouldn't really sweat the whole barrel life. I can tell you that my 6.5 Creed Stag (with an IBI 19" barrel) shooting sloooow factory Hornady 140 ELDM ammo (about 2530fps) recoils less and shoots the same windage as my 26" barrelled .308 shooting 175gr RDFs at 2750fps. When I get a chance to do load dev, I fully expect to find an accurate load at or over 2600fps at which point it will be shooting inside the .308. You tell me which one you think is "better"? 
hannibal.black98
CGN frequent flyer
6.5 is "better"...but barrel life is cut in half, especially with a semi auto...you need a longer barrel to REALLY get the benefits of it...and ammo is much more $$$, less options and good luck finding it outside of a (non fudd) gun store.
If you want to shoot lots (and are not rich) and you shoot 500m-600m or less (many shoot like 200m max) then I would still to the good old .308Win!!!
PS. In everyway expect action length (if that really matters to you) the old .25-06 blows the 6.5 away!!!
If you want to shoot lots (and are not rich) and you shoot 500m-600m or less (many shoot like 200m max) then I would still to the good old .308Win!!!
PS. In everyway expect action length (if that really matters to you) the old .25-06 blows the 6.5 away!!!
Shooting to 960m this past Summer at the CHAS Genessee Range, the required windage calls for 140 gr 6.5 CM SMKs were literally half of that required to get hits with 175gr .308 SMKs. Needless to say, the 6.5CM is also much flatter shooting than the .308 at distance, with the 6.5 still supersonic whereas the .308 had gone transonic (eg. unstable) at that range.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
For an AR10, my vote goes to the Creedmoor family. I have played with the 6.5 CM and now, 22CM and love them. I think they are a wonderful match to the dimensions of the AR10 and how it functions.
With any AR precision loading, you are not running high pressures. In fact, I have yet to find a warmer load shoot well. My best results have been near starting loads and low pressure. In that environment, bores last far longer then predicted. I would not be surprised that a 6.5 CM at low pressure will last as long as a 308win at moderate pressures.
External ballistics when limited by the AR10 mag goes to the 6.5 CM hands down. It is not even a close race and the further you go, the wider the gap.
wrt to barrels, send a pm or email to discuss..... this was a test group for a customers BCL. 100yds, start load, first group once zeroed, 5 rds... figured that was good enough.
Lots of options in specing your barrel to suit.
Jerry
With any AR precision loading, you are not running high pressures. In fact, I have yet to find a warmer load shoot well. My best results have been near starting loads and low pressure. In that environment, bores last far longer then predicted. I would not be surprised that a 6.5 CM at low pressure will last as long as a 308win at moderate pressures.
External ballistics when limited by the AR10 mag goes to the 6.5 CM hands down. It is not even a close race and the further you go, the wider the gap.
wrt to barrels, send a pm or email to discuss..... this was a test group for a customers BCL. 100yds, start load, first group once zeroed, 5 rds... figured that was good enough.
Lots of options in specing your barrel to suit.
Jerry
Attachments
Just to add a note here, if you pay attention LMT and KAC only offer 22" bbl for the 6.5 CM. Even the SIG Cross is 18" in 6.5CM, but the 308 version is 16".
This is because 175SMK out of a 16" is better than 6.5CM out of a 16". 6.5CM needs longer barrel to get the velocity and ballistic advantage.
So if you want to justify 6.5CM in a semi, you should get a 22" bbl to tap into its advantage. Otherwise, go for a 18.5" 308 for logistics reasons.
A longer barrel (up to about 26" or so for 6.5 and .308) will always get you more velocity/performance/better ballistics for the same load but for equal barrel lengths, even under 22", the 6.5 Creedmoor outperforms the .308. Like I said, FACTORY 140 ammo in my 19" barrelled 6.5 Creed Stag has the same windage as hand loaded 175gr RDFs in my 26" barrelled bolt gun (a load that has way better performance than M118LR or anything with a 175SMK and it's ####ty BC). If you're comparing factory ammo in both 6.5 and .308 at the same barrel length it's not even comparable and this isn't taking into account the lesser recoil impulse of the 6.5 either. If you're not shooting out to distance, none of this really matters but better is always better.
I think if terminal ballistics is important to you then inside of 600m, the 308 can make sense. It does carry more energy inside about 600m (depending on loadings).
Having said that, as a target shooter, I was shooting my tikka varmint 24” bolt gun (308, capable of about 0.3 MOA groups at 100) side by side with my 19” stag 10 (6.5 CM capable of about 0.5 MOA groups at 100; IBI barrel FYI).
I was at 550m shooting a 2/3 IDPA plate.
Wind conditions were only about 1-2 MPH, but the wind was either fishtailing from 11 to 1 or gusting slightly.
At that distance in the same conditions, I struggled to put consistent rounds on target with my tikka. I was actually pretty annoyed.
With the stag I had no issue making consistent hits, so long as I took my time (I can get a little carried away with the semi).
I just had my tikka re-barrelled to 6.5CM because for me and my uses, 6.5 outperforms 308 in EVERY capacity.
Out of that 19” IBI barrel, with a 130gr bullet I can get 2700fps which in my environment keeps me supersonic (>1340 FPS) our to beyond 1Km.
As a reference I was shooting a 168gr eldm at 2750fps out of my tikka. This isn’t an apples to apples comparison but it is a real world result.
YMMV.
Having said that, as a target shooter, I was shooting my tikka varmint 24” bolt gun (308, capable of about 0.3 MOA groups at 100) side by side with my 19” stag 10 (6.5 CM capable of about 0.5 MOA groups at 100; IBI barrel FYI).
I was at 550m shooting a 2/3 IDPA plate.
Wind conditions were only about 1-2 MPH, but the wind was either fishtailing from 11 to 1 or gusting slightly.
At that distance in the same conditions, I struggled to put consistent rounds on target with my tikka. I was actually pretty annoyed.
With the stag I had no issue making consistent hits, so long as I took my time (I can get a little carried away with the semi).
I just had my tikka re-barrelled to 6.5CM because for me and my uses, 6.5 outperforms 308 in EVERY capacity.
Out of that 19” IBI barrel, with a 130gr bullet I can get 2700fps which in my environment keeps me supersonic (>1340 FPS) our to beyond 1Km.
As a reference I was shooting a 168gr eldm at 2750fps out of my tikka. This isn’t an apples to apples comparison but it is a real world result.
YMMV.
Bustercluck
CGN Regular
- Location
- Fort McMurray
IVe been pondering this same question recently. I bought a receiver set with intentions of building it in .308 strictly because it’s easy and cheap to find ammo. After buying the receiver I starting thinking about building it in 6.5 Creedmoor , because I have all of the reloading gear and lots of projectiles. And one email to jerry at mystic and I had my heart set on a custom McGowan in 6.5 creed with a 24” tube. Then today my stepdad gave me a pile of brand new .308 loading gear.
Now I don’t have a clue what I’m doing. I’ll probably go .308. I saw tenda has 500 rounds of federal on for 409$. Pretty hard to compete with that for plinking.
Now I don’t have a clue what I’m doing. I’ll probably go .308. I saw tenda has 500 rounds of federal on for 409$. Pretty hard to compete with that for plinking.
I think that if you’re just plinking, the 308 will do great especially because of the benefits of economies of scale given it’s a widespread military cartridge and is available at prices like you suggest.
If you are looking at cost of components or match ammo however, I’d say they are even.
If you are looking at cost of components or match ammo however, I’d say they are even.
These threads are funny. Which is better, 6.5 creed or .308? 6.5 Creed is better in every way than .308 except for barrel life. Depending on what your accuracy requirements are, you'll get about 3000 rds out of the 6.5. Seeing as most people don't normally shoot 3000 rds a year, I wouldn't really sweat the whole barrel life. I can tell you that my 6.5 Creed Stag (with an IBI 19" barrel) shooting sloooow factory Hornady 140 ELDM ammo (about 2530fps) recoils less and shoots the same windage as my 26" barrelled .308 shooting 175gr RDFs at 2750fps. When I get a chance to do load dev, I fully expect to find an accurate load at or over 2600fps at which point it will be shooting inside the .308. You tell me which one you think is "better"?
100% with you !!!!
308 is the most overrated caliber ever !
And here what's Brian Litz ( Berger bullets ballistic engineer) think of the 30 cal , google : What's wrong with the 30 caliber ?
