backdoorsally
CGN Regular
- Location
- South East Alberta
Any alternatives to lapua for 6.5x47 brass
6.5x47 lapua
- Thread starter backdoorsally
- Start date
You can make your cases from 22-250 or 243 Win or 6 XC brass.
6XC is the easiest to form because you can do it in a single step... just expand the neck and run it through your FL die.
22-250 and 243 can be done 2 ways...
1) Just expand the necks and run it through your resizing die... it will push the soulder back but will also collapse the side wall... then you need to fire form it to fit the chamber.
2) This is the better way... Get a 22-250 or 243 die and chop off the bottom of it so it's the same length from the base to the shoulder as the 6.5x47. Use this die to push the shoulder back, then run it through your 6.5x47 die to change the shoulder angle.
Oh and BTW... all of the above will change it to large primers which in my opinion (based on actual chronograph testing) is a better way to go anyway. Aside from the risk of hang fires, I just don't see a benefit to small primer brass on such a caliber. If it's an excuse to run at higher pressures, then just get a 6.5 Creed.
6XC is the easiest to form because you can do it in a single step... just expand the neck and run it through your FL die.
22-250 and 243 can be done 2 ways...
1) Just expand the necks and run it through your resizing die... it will push the soulder back but will also collapse the side wall... then you need to fire form it to fit the chamber.
2) This is the better way... Get a 22-250 or 243 die and chop off the bottom of it so it's the same length from the base to the shoulder as the 6.5x47. Use this die to push the shoulder back, then run it through your 6.5x47 die to change the shoulder angle.
Oh and BTW... all of the above will change it to large primers which in my opinion (based on actual chronograph testing) is a better way to go anyway. Aside from the risk of hang fires, I just don't see a benefit to small primer brass on such a caliber. If it's an excuse to run at higher pressures, then just get a 6.5 Creed.
Why on earth would you go to all that trouble to not use Lapua brass (arguably the best brass out there)? My reloads in Lapua brass (in my case 6.5 Creed) always have a lower SD/ES with the exact same process than I get in any other brass.
If someone wants to shoot a short action 6.5 and not use Lapua brass, shoot a 6.5 Creedmoor or .260
Easy... to save money on brass.
Lapua is just about the most expensive brand out there and anything is cheaper than that.
It's also to get the large primer... at least as an option for guys like me who have proven lower SDs with large than small in cold weather.
The PPC wasn't marketing hype, the 1.5" 308 with small primers wasn't marketing hype, the 6mm BR wasn't marketing hype...
And the quality of Lapua brass isn't marketing hype. I could care less about comparing the cost against inferior brass when you consider reloading.
backdoorsally
CGN Regular
- Location
- South East Alberta
I wasn't looking for cheaper brass. I honestly don't really care what it costs. Lapua is some of the best brass for sure, if I could find something that's even better though I would be interested in trying it. Regardless of the cost.
I hope Alpha Munitions starts to make 6.5X47 lapua in the near future.
I hope Alpha Munitions starts to make 6.5X47 lapua in the near future.
Well now you are changing the parameters by introducing 6br and 308... The 6br is fine because it has 10 grains less powder than a 6.5x47 and since it has less powder also has a faster burn rate so no ignition issues.
As for 308... Try those small primers over a chronograph in January and get back to me with your 80 FPS SD results. That's a summer time only load and good for nothing in the cold.
I can at least understand a guy looking for a high pressure edge with the 308 because many competitions put 308 in a class of their own, so you must use it. And competitions are summer time anyway so they tend to get away with it.
Anything else is in an open class so if you want faster just go bigger.
OK, money bags... if you don't mind paying lapua prices good for you, but a lot of guys are a little more careful with where they spend their money, so Lapua is not for everyone.
Just because you pay big bucks for brass does not make it better...
Suppose for a minute that you bought 1000 rounds of once fired brass for the cost of 100 lapua and then sort them into batches of 100 closest in weight
Now suddenly the case weights are more consistent than lapua
But what if you bought 3000 once fired cases and sort them into closest 100 in weight... suddenly way more close than lapua
Neck turn and anneal all of them.
Theres more than one way to skin a cat... that's all... just depends how you choose to roll.
Suppose for a minute that you bought 1000 rounds of once fired brass for the cost of 100 lapua and then sort them into batches of 100 closest in weight
Now suddenly the case weights are more consistent than lapua
But what if you bought 3000 once fired cases and sort them into closest 100 in weight... suddenly way more close than lapua
Neck turn and anneal all of them.
Theres more than one way to skin a cat... that's all... just depends how you choose to roll.
That's what short range center fire bench rest shooters had to do to make brass as good as possible (50 years ago) ... before Lapua was in the picture... and factory Lapua brass is still better than the weighed, turned and annealed miscellaneous once fired brass. You can't consistently make crap brass as good as Lapua, period.
You roll your way... you are happy with it...
backdoorsally
CGN Regular
- Location
- South East Alberta
I wonder if someone could afford $1900 for a good induction annealing machine they can probably afford good bras also?
Just my opinion but annealing with anything other than induction is not any wears consistent enough if anything it just makes matters worse. Anyone annealing with a torch should throw all that stuff in the garbage and either buy a proper Annealing machine or load the brass twice than sell it used.
I’d rather not mess around tying to make 6.5x47 brass m just looking to see if anyone has found anything better than Lapua
Fastestmanalive
Regular
- Location
- Quebec City
Sorting brass by weight will not help getting 1x fired to Lapua's SD's. Proven many times by experimentation that weight is not a reliable method for internal volume measurement. You would still have more variation of the h20 volume with mixed headstamp 1x fired that same batch Lapua's (or any premium brass)
Salt bath annealing is good... and cheap.
Why some people think something is better just because they paid more is often a mystery.
There's a case study on a floundering company that made the best horse blankets anywhere and sold them at a low price. They almost went out of business. Eventually they increased the price to be double the cost of any competitor and then sold twice as many blankets, but now with a high profit margin. Same blanket but at a high price then customers respected the product.
Not to say Lapua is not top grade stuff... it is... no question.
But spending big money on brass guarantees nothing... especially if you have a custom chamber. If you have a sloppy neck, thick neck Lapua brass can help. Conversely a tighter neck in the chamber can provide good results with slightly neck turned Privi.
One could also argue that Lapua brass is heavy so that means the volume inside the case is smaller than lighter Winchester brass... Therefore Winchester brass can hit higher safe velocities than possible with Lapua.
It also depends on the game you play...
PRS where we feed from a mag and loose a lot of brass or single shot F Class... Different motivation
I've found that in shooting especially, people are often guilty of cognitive bias and need to zoom out and consider a wider range of contributing factors to how and why a rifle shoots well or badly.
It's never just thing you want to pay attention to.
Think about root cause analysis and the five why's. Why did that happen.. then why that until you get to the root. Then there's the four M's of root cause analysis... Man, Method, Machine and Materials... and then in shooting, there's environmentals to consider.
And then there's the law of diminishing returns... even if it is better... is it that much better to justify the higher price? It's up to each of us to decide.
As for the accuracy that is supposedly attributed to small primers... we need to consider exactly how that accuracy is actually derived... small primers don't just magically close groups... They would only do so by reducing the velocity spread, if they actually do. You can test for this over a chronograph and confirm or disprove the marketing hype through your own chronograph testing, and comparing small primer brass to large primer brass in the same rifle over a chronograph.
Work up loads for both and compare, and do that over a wide temperature range and then get back to us with your findings. I already did it, many times, hence my opinion on the subject.
It is quite common for hand loaders to hit single digit SDs with large primers, so honestly... how much better do you expect a small primer to get your velocity spread?
Why some people think something is better just because they paid more is often a mystery.
There's a case study on a floundering company that made the best horse blankets anywhere and sold them at a low price. They almost went out of business. Eventually they increased the price to be double the cost of any competitor and then sold twice as many blankets, but now with a high profit margin. Same blanket but at a high price then customers respected the product.
Not to say Lapua is not top grade stuff... it is... no question.
But spending big money on brass guarantees nothing... especially if you have a custom chamber. If you have a sloppy neck, thick neck Lapua brass can help. Conversely a tighter neck in the chamber can provide good results with slightly neck turned Privi.
One could also argue that Lapua brass is heavy so that means the volume inside the case is smaller than lighter Winchester brass... Therefore Winchester brass can hit higher safe velocities than possible with Lapua.
It also depends on the game you play...
PRS where we feed from a mag and loose a lot of brass or single shot F Class... Different motivation
I've found that in shooting especially, people are often guilty of cognitive bias and need to zoom out and consider a wider range of contributing factors to how and why a rifle shoots well or badly.
It's never just thing you want to pay attention to.
Think about root cause analysis and the five why's. Why did that happen.. then why that until you get to the root. Then there's the four M's of root cause analysis... Man, Method, Machine and Materials... and then in shooting, there's environmentals to consider.
And then there's the law of diminishing returns... even if it is better... is it that much better to justify the higher price? It's up to each of us to decide.
As for the accuracy that is supposedly attributed to small primers... we need to consider exactly how that accuracy is actually derived... small primers don't just magically close groups... They would only do so by reducing the velocity spread, if they actually do. You can test for this over a chronograph and confirm or disprove the marketing hype through your own chronograph testing, and comparing small primer brass to large primer brass in the same rifle over a chronograph.
Work up loads for both and compare, and do that over a wide temperature range and then get back to us with your findings. I already did it, many times, hence my opinion on the subject.
It is quite common for hand loaders to hit single digit SDs with large primers, so honestly... how much better do you expect a small primer to get your velocity spread?
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