6.5x50 jap brass neck sizing through 6.5x55 FL die?

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diegocn

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I recently acquired a type 38 arisaka rifle and secured some new PPU brass. From what I've heard these rifles have very generous chamber and the fired case often get a big bulge on the side. Thus I'm thinking about neck sizing the case to maximize case life.

Seeing I already have the 6.5x55 FL die, and 6.5x55 is larger in overall dimension than 6.5 jap, do you think I can do (partial) neck sizing with the 6.5x55 die (possibly back off a few turns)?

Alternatively I can pick up a Lee collet die in 6.5 calibre. However I am unfamiliar with how the Lee collet die works. Are they calibre specific or can I use a collet die for 6.5 swede on other 6.5 cartridges?
 
Looking at a Hornady 9th manual - they used .264" bullets in both - so I presume the sizer ball on the de-capping stem is the same size? So I would go ahead and try your neck size idea - should work, I would think - but I never tried that. As you know, the shoulder angles are different - so eventually you will need a proper 6.5x50 Jap die to Full Length size or to do a "shoulder" bump. FYI - I have multiple times re-sized a case neck by "pushing" it over, and then pulling out again, from a sizing die - without sizing the case body at all. As you know - the die will squish the neck too small - above that expander ball, and then the expander ball will open it back out, on the way out.

Is possible that a "big bulge on the side" might be problematic - would think if such was occurring, that brass would only go back in, in the orientation that it came out? Most military ammo / chambers had "zero" consideration about reloading that case - had to chamber, to fire with out splitting or separating, and then to extract - on to the next "new" round ... Most of the time, was minimal, if any, concern, about whether that fired case was able to be re-sized and re-loaded, once it was extracted from the firearm.

About "classic" for that would be WWI 303 British with over-size chambers - headspace was on the rim - first time firing blew the case out to fit that chamber - without splitting or separating - "most of the time" - but a subsequent re-sizing / re-loading might now result in case head separation - was simply NOT a concern by the designers, at the time. They were only concerned with a successful first firing - I think.
 
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Will probably work.
I use my 6.5x55 die to neck size 6.5 carcano brass. These are shorter so the neck is not fully sized but it work just fine.
 
diegocn.

Over the years I've owned and shot several Japanese rifles. Everything from Muratas to different variants of Arisakas including last ditch 99 types.

Being fussy about what I picked up and being in a position to cherry pick from thousands at a time, all were in in excellent/new condition.

I didn't bother with captures/surrenders/battle field pick ups/vet bringbacks, because they were usually beat up and hadn't been cleaned since they were last used.

The one thing that was a given, all had bore diameters within their specified range but very few were right on "mean" spec.

Some were a bit tight at .002 under, .262 but most were over mean anywhere from .266-.268

The last Japanese rifle I have left is a Type I, built by the Italians on their Carcano action. It's a put together from a couple of rifles, just a stock from a rifle without a bolt and another with a cut down stock but otherwise complete.

It has a .267 bore, which is to be expected, considering where it was built and I shoot .268 Hornady, 160 grn round nose bullets through it which were purpose built for the 6.5 Carcano round

The last Type 38 variant was a real gem, but it had a .268 bore as well. From the markings on the rifle everything was built around 1939, including the barrel.

The thing to remember with these rifles is that they were built to acceptable battlefield standards of the time and to accept the cheapest available offerings from manufacturers that often stepped outside the lines to increase production when circumstances allowed.

Check your bore diameter. Unless you can find some of the .268 diameter bullets, accuracy will not be great.

As far as using a Lee Collet 6.5x55 die set, it will work but only size approximately .175 of your neck length. I actually did this for quite a few years

and it worked quite well under range conditions, with both new cases and recycled cases.

Eventually I found the proper sizing die and along with a Lee Universal seating die I went with sizing the necks to one bullet diameter. I never saw any noticeable change in accuracy or pressures.
 
The Lee die for 6.5 Jap is garbage.
Use the 6.5x55 die. There is a gent on gunboards whose got a long post on these dies.
 
I'm still waiting for the brass to arrive and have not shot the rifle yet. My goal is to have (any) ammo that's safe to shoot in the rifle, and get as many reloading out of the brass as possible. Once I have that then I'll try to work on the accuracy. But given I bought the rifle without the intention to shoot it (due to perceived lacks of brass), anything shootable is a big step.

Check your bore diameter. Unless you can find some of the .268 diameter bullets, accuracy will not be great.
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Good advise on slugging the bore first. If it's way over 264 then I can probably save some expensive 264 bullets and just have it shoot plated lead bullets.

Is possible that a "big bulge on the side" might be problematic...About "classic" for that would be WWI 303 British with over-size chambers
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From what I heard this is the same as the classic 303 brit situation but much worse.

Also good to know from multiple people that 6.5x55 dies "might" work. Again all I need is to have part of the neck sized so it will grip the bullet.

The Lee die for 6.5 Jap is garbage.
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Care to elaborate? Was it the wrong dimension?
 
I now cast my own .268 bullets (for my carcano), but jet's bullets can make you .266 or .268 cast if you need. Load to 1600fps max and enjoy.
I strongly suggest you to order a NOE expander (.266-.270) that fit in a lee expander die. cost 8$. It opens the case to the exact diameter and will keep the bullet perfectly allign without lead shaving.
https://noebulletmolds.com/site/sho...nders/expander-plug-rifle/270-x-266-exp-plug/ (that one for a .268 bullet. .002 under)
https://noebulletmolds.com/site/sho...nders/expander-plug-rifle/268-x-264-exp-plug/ (for .266 bullet)
 
You will find that the 6.5x50 Japanese doesn't like to be pushed hard to be accurate. Every one of them I've shot gas checked 160 grain bullets through, shot them well if they had good lubrication.

Now, I wouldn't use gas checks or lube, powder coating is much easier and cleaner.
 
I had case head separation issues using the Lee dies for 6.5 Jap. There used to be a video on youtube, the user took it down, where he found the Lee dies were causing this issue and he would neck size using a 6.5x55 die.
I did try his method and have no more issues with case head separation.
I would be careful using anything bigger than .264 bullets. While the Italian 6.5 was actually .267 the Japanese 6.5 is a more standard .264. I have reloaded extensively for 6.5 Carcano and have surplus ammo, I can write a long essay on it, but 6.5 Japanese is much easier once you avoid the Lee dies.
Of course with cast you can go a bit bigger with bullets. All my cast loads are 16-17gr of 2400. Works every time no matter the calibre or bullet.

I have also had issues with the Lee die for 7.65 Argentine. Despite most people knowing for decades the Lee die is not sizing it properly they have not corrected it. Lee is what it is, the walmart of reloading tools. Its cheap, most of the time it works, but its not exactly quality stuff.
I have not tried powder coating but after bearhunter's remarks I am going to have to look into that more closely...
 
sledge - your comment about case-head separation is of concern to me - I load many similar cases - but not the 6.5x50 Jap - so bottle-neck and rimless - I had been operating under notion that case head separation is from excessive head space - a mis-match between cartridge case shoulder length and the chamber length. I honestly had not thought that the sizing die might be the cause, although thinking about it, I can see how a die with a too short body length for that chamber would push back the shoulders excessively, if the shell holder is always run up tight to the die bottom. Is this the experience that you have had? My 7.65 Argentine dies are by RCBS, and I do not recall an iota of difficulty with those loads and PPU brass. But I also have Lee dies for 243 Win, and 30-30 Win and have not had issues with them, either.

From an experience to form 9.3x57 from 8x57, for a Husqvarna chamber that was too long for the 8x57 brass, I started with the re-forming process to make a "false shoulder" to fire form to that chamber - that means that I can not use the die maker's instructions to set the sizing die - have to try and fit to the rifle chamber, but I do eventually get brass to fit with about minimal headspace issues - and have had NO case head separations while doing so - maybe I was overlooking something that you have discovered?
 
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Potashminer said:
sledge - your comment about case-head separation is of concern to me - I load many similar cases - but not the 6.5x50 Jap - so bottle-neck and rimless - I had been operating under notion that case head separation is from excessive head space - a mis-match between cartridge case shoulder length and the chamber length. I honestly had not thought that the sizing die might be the cause, although thinking about it, I can see how a die with a too short body length for that chamber would push back the shoulders excessively, if the shell holder is always run up tight to the die bottom. Is this the experience that you have had? My 7.65 Argentine dies are by RCBS, and I do not recall an iota of difficulty with those loads and PPU brass. But I also have Lee dies for 243 Win, and 30-30 Win and have not had issues with them, either.

From an experience to form 9.3x57 from 8x57, for a Husqvarna chamber that was too long for the 8x57 brass, I started with the re-forming process to make a "false shoulder" to fire form to that chamber - that means that I can not use the die maker's instructions to set the sizing die - have to try and fit to the rifle chamber, but I do eventually get brass to fit with about minimal headspace issues - and have had NO case head separations while doing so - maybe I was overlooking something that you have discovered?
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I think the answer to that would be to back the die off. The idea is to fit the brass to YOUR rifle's chamber, and adjusting the dies to do that (and starting with brass that can be fit to said chamber) is how that's done. What I have seen in old military guns are chambers that have become so out of spec that following standard procedures just won't give you brass that fits properly. Keep in mind some chambers are so far gone it is a shoot it once and throw it away type of thing. FWIW. - dan
 
dan belisle said:
I think the answer to that would be to back the die off. The idea is to fit the brass to YOUR rifle's chamber, and adjusting the dies to do that (and starting with brass that can be fit to said chamber) is how that's done. What I have seen in old military guns are chambers that have become so out of spec that following standard procedures just won't give you brass that fits properly. Keep in mind some chambers are so far gone it is a shoot it once and throw it away type of thing. FWIW. - dan
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Yep - is about exactly what I have read about some WWI 303 British chambers - except they were made that way on purpose - not worn at all!!
 
Potashminer said:
Yep - is about exactly what I have read about some WWI 303 British chambers - except they were made that way on purpose - not worn at all!!
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Yes, the combination of ammo from different plants made to different QC specs, with the grime of the trenches required "generous" chambers. I have read in a few sources that sometimes this was done in France at brigade level armourers. I can only imagine how accurate some of those modifications were. - dan
 
sledge said:
I had case head separation issues using the Lee dies for 6.5 Jap. There used to be a video on youtube, the user took it down, where he found the Lee dies were causing this issue and he would neck size using a 6.5x55 die.
I did try his method and have no more issues with case head separation.
I would be careful using anything bigger than .264 bullets. While the Italian 6.5 was actually .267 the Japanese 6.5 is a more standard .264. I have reloaded extensively for 6.5 Carcano and have surplus ammo, I can write a long essay on it, but 6.5 Japanese is much easier once you avoid the Lee dies.
Of course with cast you can go a bit bigger with bullets. All my cast loads are 16-17gr of 2400. Works every time no matter the calibre or bullet.

I have also had issues with the Lee die for 7.65 Argentine. Despite most people knowing for decades the Lee die is not sizing it properly they have not corrected it. Lee is what it is, the walmart of reloading tools. Its cheap, most of the time it works, but its not exactly quality stuff.
I have not tried powder coating but after bearhunter's remarks I am going to have to look into that more closely...
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The .268 bullet diameter was a caution. Read the post.

It was suggested that the OP slug his bore to check diameter, before purchasing bullets that are ''to small'' for good accuracy.
 
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