6.5x50 (Japanese)

[DiMP]

Tried using the search function, but very few results on here for loadings for the 6.5x50 Japanese for the Type 30/38. I just recently acquired a nice condition Type 38 "Arisaka" to go with the dies and brass I bought 4 or 5 years ago. I found a couple loads in my reloading manuals, but also want to hear from others on what's worked well for them. I slugged the bore and it seems ~.264, so I still need to buy some bullets to load with, thus my inquiry. I load all my other milsurps with IMR4064, so if there is a bullet you can suggest for that powder, that's ideal, but not strictly a deal breaker either. On hand I currently have IMR4064, IMR3031, IMR4320, and Alliant Unique. If anyone has found a loading that seems to work to match POA/POI for these rifles, that would be the most beneficial, but once again, not a deal breaker.

I have some undersized (for my Carcanos) .265 cast bullets that I'll try with 10gr of Unique (seems to be a universal load in all cast mid-size rifle calibres) just to get this thing shooting until I buy new supplies.

 

[bearhunter]

The last two 6.5 mm Japanese rifles I had both had bores which required .268 bullets, just like my Carcano.

I had a Type 1 and a Type 38, made in the mid thirties. The Type 1 was made in Italy, for Japan and other than the stock and magazine well, it was a Carcano, chambered in 6.5x50 Japanese.

Japanese actions and the Carcano actions are much stronger than most realize.

PO Ackley couldn't blow up a couple of Arisaka actions trying to push thirty caliber bullets down a 6.5mm bore, with a rifle's chamber recut for the 30-06 springfield, using 220 grain fmj bullets over a case full of 2400 powder.

I don't believe the Carcano is that strong, but it's much stronger than most believe.

I used decent loads with my .268 diameter bullets in both rifles, with 1-9 twist rates/32in bbl on the Type 38.

The 140 grain bullets which were .264 diameter shot OK, 2-3 moa at 100 yds but the 160 grain round nose, .268 bullets shot into sub 2moa, from both rifles.

My 140 grains .264 diameter loads were close to maximum

34.0 grains of IMR4064 over Federal 210 primers = 2580fps avg over a magnetospeed.

40.0 grains H4831 over Federal 210 primers = 2630fps avg

160 grain .268 diameter loads were also close to maximum

33.5 grains IMR4064 over Federal 210 primers = 2420fps avg

41.0 grains H4831 over Federal 210 primers = 2380fps

 

[DiMP]

Thanks for the (as always) detailed and informative reply Bear Hunter! My new to me Type 38 is a no-series rifle from the Tokyo arsenal in the low 200,000 serial number range so I would believe it to be early 19-teens production or early 20's latest. My understanding is they made ~2 million Type 38's before adding the "series" markings in the mid-30's.

I've heard the barrel diameters could vary, so perhaps I should slug again to confirm. It would be easier after all to only have to have one size 6.5 calibre bullet since I live hours away from the closest small town gun store

 

[DiMP]

Had thunderstorms on and off today so not a great day for outside chores, so did some loading for my new-to-me Type 38 Arisaka in 6.5 Japanese. I haven't fired this gun yet, and I know loading different bullets and powders all at the same time isn't the way to go, but here we are. All loadings are using Norma brass and primed with Ginex Large Rifle Primers. Hopefully I can get out in the next few weeks to try these out

From left to right:

Herters 145gr Cast/GC (.265) over 10.0gr Alliant Unique (NOTE: This is not a published load but based on numerous different cast loadings from similar sized cases and bullets)

Hornady 160gr RN (#2640) over 33.0gr of IMR4064 (Hornady Reloading Manual [1980] shows 27.5-33.6gr)

Speer HotCor 140gr SP (#1441) over 34.0gr of IMR4064 (Lyman Reloading Manual [1967] shows 32.0-36.0gr)

PPU 139gr FMJBT over 31.2gr of IMR3031 (Lyman Reloading Manual [1967] lists this load as mimicking original military factory loading)

 

[DiMP]

Made a quick trip to the range today with the new loads. I only fired 5 of each instead of the 10 I loaded as there was some Primer flattening in all the jacketed loads. Also, I was using Norma brass I had bought years ago at a gun show before I'd ever owned this rifle and it had an unknown number of firings on it and already some faint cracks appearing on some of the brass. That said, I had 3 cases split completely in two down by the base and another 6 or so have cracks open in the base. I'd heard Type 38s could be rough on brass due to chamber tolerances, but I really hope that by dialing back the powder charge I can at least get a couple firings out of each case as it isn't the most readily available

Anyways, here's my results at 50 yards shooting off a sandbag at a 3" target circle. The Hornady bullet has real promise here, but I suppose it should shoot best if price per bullet has anything to do with it

I did not bring a chronograph today, so I have no idea what velocity these were shooting at unfortunately

 

[DiMP]

As I'm cleaning up from the range visit I figured I'd grab a photo of the brass. In this light the Primer isn't as flat as I've seen before, but it definitely flattened somewhat. Seems the loading of 10gr of Unique pushed the Primer out just a little, but it is still rounded

As you can see, if this continues, I am not going to get many firings out of these brass