Have a 190? Karl Gustav Swedish Mauser that my father did an awesome job turning it into a sporter. I found that it likes 140 gr. Barnes TSX's with Hodgen Varget, but found some 160 gr. Hornaday RN's which I kind of want to try as they are about as close as you can get to the ammo as it was meant to shoot. I am having trouble finding a load for these bullets. Lots of guys say how good they shoot but I can't seem to find a good load on the web, and my 1982 Speer Reloading manual definitely does not have any useful data. I have about a pound of Varget, some IMR 4895, and some IMR4350 that I wouldn't mind using up before I go buying anything else. Any help would be great!
6.5x55 Swede Reloading
- Thread starter dano1850
- Start date
Have a 190? Karl Gustav Swedish Mauser that my father did an awesome job turning it into a sporter. I found that it likes 140 gr. Barnes TSX's with Hodgen Varget, but found some 160 gr. Hornaday RN's which I kind of want to try as they are about as close as you can get to the ammo as it was meant to shoot. I am having trouble finding a load for these bullets. Lots of guys say how good they shoot but I can't seem to find a good load on the web, and my 1982 Speer Reloading manual definitely does not have any useful data. I have about a pound of Varget, some IMR 4895, and some IMR4350 that I wouldn't mind using up before I go buying anything else. Any help would be great!
I found that the 140 grain bullets worked best in my M38 Swedish Mauser, but I never tried 160 grain bullets.
The best were 140 grain Norma HPBT but the 140 grain Sierras were also good. 120 grain worked OK, but 85 grain bullets left a shotgun like pattern at 100 yards.
I used IMR 4350 normally.
The best were 140 grain Norma HPBT but the 140 grain Sierras were also good. 120 grain worked OK, but 85 grain bullets left a shotgun like pattern at 100 yards.
I used IMR 4350 normally.
luckythirteen
CGN Regular
- Location
- Yukon Territory
I have a 1901 sported, turned bolt, no holes tapped so shooting open sight. I recrowned the muzzle after it was patterning like a shotgun at 100 yards with factory S&B 140gr SP and FMJ.
I’m just starting with 140 Hornady SST, interlocks next.
Starting with 33.5 grains of 4064 and am knocking over animal silhouettes from 200 to 500 meters. Seems to be about 2 - 3 inch groups at 100 yards but it is difficult for me to precision shoot wth open sights(maybe I need better targets?).
I am trying to decide if my starting load is ‘good enough’ for plinking (maybe hunting under 100 yards) as I don’t want to subject this 100+ year old gun to high pressures.
Anyways, the Lyman 50th does list Acc. 4350 for 160RN. I am not sure if that is the same as IMR. Nothing else of yours listed tho. Nothing listed for you in the Hornady 10th either.
Well brought up post, I was wondering about trying the 160 RN but I can’t find anything for my go-to 4064.
Good luck with your Swede, I am really falling in love with mine.
I’m just starting with 140 Hornady SST, interlocks next.
Starting with 33.5 grains of 4064 and am knocking over animal silhouettes from 200 to 500 meters. Seems to be about 2 - 3 inch groups at 100 yards but it is difficult for me to precision shoot wth open sights(maybe I need better targets?).
I am trying to decide if my starting load is ‘good enough’ for plinking (maybe hunting under 100 yards) as I don’t want to subject this 100+ year old gun to high pressures.
Anyways, the Lyman 50th does list Acc. 4350 for 160RN. I am not sure if that is the same as IMR. Nothing else of yours listed tho. Nothing listed for you in the Hornady 10th either.
Well brought up post, I was wondering about trying the 160 RN but I can’t find anything for my go-to 4064.
Good luck with your Swede, I am really falling in love with mine.
UMMMMMMMMM, NO, Most of those rifles were re barreled several times during their service lives. They received the latest barrels available each time. The twist rates didn't vary to my knowledge but the bullets issued by the Swedes DID.
The Swedes switched to a 140 grain boat tail design around 1941. They also changed the rear sights on some of their rifles when they were fitted with shorter barrels, M96/38.
Some of these rifles will have "data" either pasted or nailed to the right side of the butt.
OP, you state your rifle has been sporterized. Not that it really matters. The thing is, you don't mention if you're shooting iron sights or a scope. If irons, they will be for the 140 grain bullet and you will have to do some shooting to familiarize yourself with their performance.
Norma loads the 160 grain round nose projectiles at the same velocity the Swedish military did but with different powders.
The Swedes used a BOFORS made powder that went by the designation #44. It was the same as or similar to IMR 3031. They loaded 34 grains of this powder under their 160 grain bullets for a velocity of 2200fps out of the M94 Carbine and 2300fps out of the M96, M38 and Ag42B semi auto rifles. It was my understanding that one of the main reasons for standardizing on the 139 grain SBT bullets was feeding the Ag42B semi auto. I'm not really sure but it would make sense as well as the possibly better trajectory of the new bullet.
Varget is slightly slower than IMR3031. I haven't used it in the Swede as I prefer IMR7828SSC.
I have used H4831 and the old #44 powder which I loaded to the military specs. Back in the day, surplus 160 grain cupro nickle round nose bullets and loaded cartridges were available from International Firearms out of Montreal.
I bought thousands of each, as well as wooden tipped cartridges to cannibalize the excellent pistol powder they contained, fill the cases with surplus powder/bullets. I pulled the bullets and weighed the powder. That's where I got the 34 grain load. My records show appx 2300fps from my M96 at the time.
A starting point of 34 grains of Varget should be close to the military velocities.
TURF THE LIBERALS IN 2019
The Swedes switched to a 140 grain boat tail design around 1941. They also changed the rear sights on some of their rifles when they were fitted with shorter barrels, M96/38.
Some of these rifles will have "data" either pasted or nailed to the right side of the butt.
OP, you state your rifle has been sporterized. Not that it really matters. The thing is, you don't mention if you're shooting iron sights or a scope. If irons, they will be for the 140 grain bullet and you will have to do some shooting to familiarize yourself with their performance.
Norma loads the 160 grain round nose projectiles at the same velocity the Swedish military did but with different powders.
The Swedes used a BOFORS made powder that went by the designation #44. It was the same as or similar to IMR 3031. They loaded 34 grains of this powder under their 160 grain bullets for a velocity of 2200fps out of the M94 Carbine and 2300fps out of the M96, M38 and Ag42B semi auto rifles. It was my understanding that one of the main reasons for standardizing on the 139 grain SBT bullets was feeding the Ag42B semi auto. I'm not really sure but it would make sense as well as the possibly better trajectory of the new bullet.
Varget is slightly slower than IMR3031. I haven't used it in the Swede as I prefer IMR7828SSC.
I have used H4831 and the old #44 powder which I loaded to the military specs. Back in the day, surplus 160 grain cupro nickle round nose bullets and loaded cartridges were available from International Firearms out of Montreal.
I bought thousands of each, as well as wooden tipped cartridges to cannibalize the excellent pistol powder they contained, fill the cases with surplus powder/bullets. I pulled the bullets and weighed the powder. That's where I got the 34 grain load. My records show appx 2300fps from my M96 at the time.
A starting point of 34 grains of Varget should be close to the military velocities.
TURF THE LIBERALS IN 2019
Shot many moose with the 156-160gr bullets on top of 42gr of IMR4350 always an in and an out hole with minimal meat damage.IMR 4350 is also great with the 140gr bullets with some books printing specific Swedish mauser loads as a test platform.RE#22 is another winner.Norma used to use N204 in their factory loads which is the RE#19 equivalent.
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Swedish mauser safe data for the 140gr Hornady 3rd edition lists IMR 4350 44gr MAX for 2500fps while the Speer#10 lists 46gr MAX for 2562fps [1-7.5 twist ] seat your bullets short enough to fit the magazine and just shy of touching the rifling.
I loaded the 160gr RN for a Swede. Buddy got a moose with it. Bullet was found under the hide on the far side.
45 gr of Win 760 (H414) 2500 fps
45gr of 4350 would be a similar load.
Note: I have corrected the above load. My original posting of 46 gr was an error.
45 gr of Win 760 (H414) 2500 fps
45gr of 4350 would be a similar load.
Note: I have corrected the above load. My original posting of 46 gr was an error.
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Nice! Thank you for the help. I saw one of those Ljungman's at a gun show, it looked like a pretty interesting piece. I can also remember those International Firearms catalogs that my Dad used to get back in the day.
My Mauser has Nikko Stirling 10x 42mm scope and I can usually get about a 1 to 3" group at our 100 yd range with 140gr (Ive tried both Barnes and Nosler bullets), I can't remember my OAL off hand but I think we set them about 0.020" off the lands. It's and absolute joy to shoot. I kind of want to see if I can dial it in a bit and take it out and knock a hole in at least a coyote, or maybe take it to Alberta or Saskatchewan and shoot some long range gophers next spring.
My Mauser has Nikko Stirling 10x 42mm scope and I can usually get about a 1 to 3" group at our 100 yd range with 140gr (Ive tried both Barnes and Nosler bullets), I can't remember my OAL off hand but I think we set them about 0.020" off the lands. It's and absolute joy to shoot. I kind of want to see if I can dial it in a bit and take it out and knock a hole in at least a coyote, or maybe take it to Alberta or Saskatchewan and shoot some long range gophers next spring.
I think the 6.5 Swede is somewhat overbore so a propellant on the slow side works well. I've had very good results with IMR 4831. IMR 4064 performs equally well. There aren't really any military ctgs where IMR 4064 won't work.
- Location
- Leduc County, Alberta
I just loaded 100 rounds last night of 6.5x55mm.
Used PPU 139gr. FMJ with 36gr. of IMR4064. I seated the bullets to the crimp cannelure as I want to be able to interchange these rounds between my AG42B and my many other M96s and M38s. Had not so much fun years ago with a Hakim and non crimped rounds, so want to make sure these babies are tight for the Ljungman.
I will have to see how they shoot, though I found many guys have used this recipe to great effect.
Used PPU 139gr. FMJ with 36gr. of IMR4064. I seated the bullets to the crimp cannelure as I want to be able to interchange these rounds between my AG42B and my many other M96s and M38s. Had not so much fun years ago with a Hakim and non crimped rounds, so want to make sure these babies are tight for the Ljungman.
I will have to see how they shoot, though I found many guys have used this recipe to great effect.
I had one of those fire out of battery on me with milsurp ammo. The problem was the firing pin.
The rifles was fresh out of FTR when I got it. Cleaned it up, inside and out and took it to the range. The first few rounds were OK other than they had pierced primers. I mistakenly blamed it on the primer quality.
There was a reason those rifles were issued with a little tin with a sliding top, full of spare extractors, springs, plungers and firing pins as well as a firing pin protrusion guage.
The ag42 rifles that first came in were all marked with a crossed out C and a B underneath to designate semi auto I believe. They were prone to breakage and stoppages and were beautifully made. My first one was destroyed by the out of battery resulting kaboom. International was good enough to assess the rifle and replaced it with another freshly FTRed rifle.
I had a bruise from my hip to my knee and almost lost my knackers that time. I broke a golden rule. NEVER FIRE A NEW TO ME SURPLUS RIFLE from the bench or from a standing position for the first few rounds. After my experiences with the M94 and M96 rifles I had complete confidence in the semi auto.
TURF THE LIBERALS IN 2019
4064 is quite fast for this case and leaves a lot of air space. 4831 would be a better choice.
The AG42B came with a little parts kit. One of the parts was the firing pin retraction spring. I installed the spare spring so that the firing pin has 2 springs, instead of just one. This stopped the denting of a primer when the bolt closed.
If you don't have the kit, take the bolt apart and look around for a similar sized spring to add.
- Location
- Leduc County, Alberta
Great info about the powder and the extra spring! Thanks!
I did fire my AG42B with 20x of Federal Blue Box 140g ammo a while back... ‘‘twas interesting to say the least.
Had to mortar the gun a couple times to extract stuck cases (suprised I never ripped off the extractor). If I remember correctly, the fired primers slightly backed out of cases too.
Have not tried any of my factory PPU, but I will give that a try as well as my handloads.
I have had “fun” with all of my pre 1950 designed Semi Autos. They all have their inherent issues it seems. (SAFN49, AG42B, G43, SVT40, Hakim, even the venerable M1 Garand).
My SAFN49 was the one I learned about OOB firing and bent/stuck firing pins and slamfires. Good times! 2 piece firing pin is a must.
I did fire my AG42B with 20x of Federal Blue Box 140g ammo a while back... ‘‘twas interesting to say the least.
Had to mortar the gun a couple times to extract stuck cases (suprised I never ripped off the extractor). If I remember correctly, the fired primers slightly backed out of cases too.
Have not tried any of my factory PPU, but I will give that a try as well as my handloads.
I have had “fun” with all of my pre 1950 designed Semi Autos. They all have their inherent issues it seems. (SAFN49, AG42B, G43, SVT40, Hakim, even the venerable M1 Garand).
My SAFN49 was the one I learned about OOB firing and bent/stuck firing pins and slamfires. Good times! 2 piece firing pin is a must.
