6.5x58 Portugese and 6.5x57 Mauser

Rob

Rob

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Can 6.5x57 Mauser fit in a rifle chambered for 6.5x58 (Portugese)? (or vice-versa...which sounds more diffcult.)

If so, what harm is there in shooting it?

I have a pre-WWI German sporting rifle supposedly in 6.5x58(Port) and have some reloading info. and dies that came with the rifle. However, on the bottom of the barrel it is marked 6.5 57. I bought some 6.5x57 factory ammo and it chambers very easily.

I am wondering if the previous owners of the rifle may have been mistakenly reloading 6.5x58 (Port) and just cramming it into the rifle which is actually chambered for 6.5x57. (There is no way to contact them.) It certainly seems more likely that a German sporter would be chambered in 6.5x57. There are no marks to indicate re-chambering to the Portugese round.

Anyone have any actual experience with these two cartridges?
 
I'm willing to bet your rifle's barrel is actually set back and rechambered for the 6.5x57.

After Portugal decided to rebarrel their rifles for the 8x57 cartridge, there were a lot of surplus barrels around.

Some rifles with the original chambering came to North America through International Firearms, now Century International.

I've seen a few that were set back and had their chambers opened up for the 6.5x57, some were worth the effort.

A lot of 6.5x53ms rifles had this done to them as well.

Times have changed and the original chamberings are more desirable to purists/collectors.

A very simple way to check out your chamber is to slather it up with oil and force plastercine into it, until it reaches the rifling.

Tap it out lighltly with a cleaning rod and you will have a cast of your chamber, one that's close enough to show you what you have.
 
I'll take that bet. This is not a rifle with a surplus military barrel. It is a high-end German sporter with an octagon barrel and full rib, made around 1912-14...not so easy to set those back without it being obvious.
 
You say that the 6.5X57 fits snugly? It drops into the chamber only as far as it should?

Take a 6.5X57 cartridge, prime it, add 10 grs of a fast pistol powder topped with Cream of Wheat and held in place with a toilet tissue "plug". Chamber it against the boltface with extractor over the rim, and fire.

After firing, examine and measure it and see if it still chambers. The shoulder position on the 6.5X58 is slightly forward of where it is for the 6.5X57, so if it blows forward significantly it might not be chambered for 6.5X57.

This is what I did in a couple of rifles before I bought some cerrosafe.
 
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Rob said:
I'll take that bet. This is not a rifle with a surplus military barrel. It is a high-end German sporter with an octagon barrel and full rib, made around 1912-14...not so easy to set those back without it being obvious.
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That's what happens when you dribble out information.

A good smith could do it an you wouldn't notice it was done, other than by the markings you indicate.

Andy is giving you good advice

From the case dimensions, you should be able to fireform useable cartridge cases from 6.5x57 cases
 
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I just took it to the range and shot it with 6.5x57 factory ammo. Shoots fine. I detect no change in the dimensions of the fired cartridge. Good enough for me.

(After about four decades of reloading everything from .222 to 45-70, I gave it up a couple of years ago. Too many other things to do. I may start up again in a very limited way. Or may not.)
 
Goes to show that you shouldn't take as true what a seller states about a gun's chambering, particularly with an older gun. I've had a couple of surprises over the years, one pleasant and one not.

I'm thinking that the 6.5X58 dies might not be up to the job for 6.5X57. The Seating Die will, and perhaps the F/L can set the shoulder to where it needs to be, but I wouldn't count on it.

Andy
 
SD0w9sM.jpg
 
Andy said:
Goes to show that you shouldn't take as true what a seller states about a gun's chambering, particularly with an older gun. I've had a couple of surprises over the years, one pleasant and one not.Andy
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One of my pet peeves is getting a rifle that has been 'smithed with a new barrel, and the 'smith did not engrave or stamp
the chambering [possibly different than original] on the barrel. Means I must do a chamber cast to verify. At present, I
have two such rifles in my safe. I will stamp them if I decide to sell either. Dave.
 
Eagleye said:
One of my pet peeves is getting a rifle that has been 'smithed with a new barrel, and the 'smith did not engrave or stamp
the chambering [possibly different than original] on the barrel. Means I must do a chamber cast to verify. At present, I
have two such rifles in my safe. I will stamp them if I decide to sell either. Dave.
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Of course, now that I have established to my own satisfaction that I have a 6.5 x 57 Mauser (as is stamped on bottom of barrel near receiver), I do have a CH 3-die set in 6.5x58 (Portugese) to dispose of...They came with the rifle.

It looks like the dies were expensive. Why anyone would go through the trouble of buying these expensive dies, making brass from .270 Win. and then reloading for 6.5x58 (Portugese) in order to only fire it once (according to the reloading data that also came with the rifle), rather than just shooting factory 6.5x57 (which is still available, here and there, now and again) is beyond me. Especially since it is stamped 6.5 57 on the bottom of the barrel. Possibly they were misinformed by an "expert"? The two cartridges are so similar that a slightly sloppy measuring of a chamber cast could easily result in one thinking it was the Portugese round.

I remember my own first attempt at chamber casting a few decades back. I had bought an unknown calibre unmarked barreled Mauser action at Bud Haynes auction for next to nothing. But it had an excellent barrel, so I cleaned it up and was trying to establish what the calibre was...I drove into town to the Co-Op and got a cupful of sulphur for free. Melted it on a hotplate and poured it into the plugged chamber. Perfect cast and a few nasty fumes. It turned out to be a .257 Roberts.
 
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Rob said:
Of course, now that I have established to my own satisfaction that I have a 6.5 x 57 Mauser (as stamped on bottom of barrel near receiver), I do have a set of 3 CH dies in 6.5x58 (Portugese) to dispose of...and some reloading info (It looks like they loaded for it and shot it once.) It looks like those dies were expensive. They came with the rifle. Why anyone would go through the trouble of making brass from .270 Win. and relaoding for 6.5x58 (Portugese)
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There are still some 6.5x58 Portuguese Vergueiro rifles out there and some people still shoot them.

To my knowledge no one has made the cartridge for almost 75 years and again to my knowledge it was never adopted as a commercial cartridge, so the only ammo that might be available would be a stash of 6.5x58 that has been squirreled away since the 60s, when the last of it was imported into North America.

I have a passion for the 8mm Kropatschek rifles. Thankfully limited to a couple of outings per year.

Not sure why I like the rifles so much, they aren't any more or less accurate than other milsurps, one being exceptionally accurate and the other two acceptable, however, they are extremely well made and smooth as oiled glass

I'm sure that lovely rifle in your pic is very smooth as well.
 
My S&B 6.5x57 commercial ammo does not chamber in M1904 Vergueiro.

6-5x57mm2.gif


6-5x58-Maus-H.jpg


NICE rifle, scope, and mounts. Double set triggers are a bonus.
 
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great thread. I reload for 6.5 x 58 Port. The CH made dies out the US are a great source for more obscure calibers. I recall I bought mine from Buffalo arms. 270 and 8 x57 are the donor brass. We are seeing a lot of the old European rifles coming out of Sweden in recent years and many of them have been smithed to a different chambering. As the 6.5 x 57 is more widespread outfits like Privi make brass and ammo. Several make dies. I am hoping to see 9.3 x 57 sometime. Reforming brass isnt hard but it would be nice to have new made brass with the right head stamp. Yes it is pretty common for those unfamilar with uncommon calibers to make errors in what the real chambering is.
 
diopter said:
My S&B 6.5x57 commercial ammo does not chamber in M1904 Vergueiro.

6-5x57mm2.gif


6-5x58-Maus-H.jpg


NICE rifle, scope, and mounts. Double set triggers are a bonus.
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You're right, didn't work in the rifle I had either. However, pull the bullets, dump the powder out of the X57 cases, then run the cases through your X58 sizing died, without the decapping pin of course, then load them all back up again.

You will find that the bit of resizing has slightly lengthened your cases to the mean length of factory X58 cases.

To bad they aren't all that easy.

I have converted a bunch of surplus/Berdan 8mm Krop cases to accept Boxer primers and usually use powder coated cast lead bullets.

One of the rifles, the "short" rifle has a .323 factory bore. The others are larger "to accept the patched bullet?"

That's a nice looking rifle, I have a very similar style Mannlicher Schoenaur that has its chamber opened up from the 6.5x54ms to X57.

The bolt face/extractor/receiver cartridge spindle had to be opened up as well to accept the X57 dimensions.

My rifle will feed cases without bullets as well, without any hang ups.

I believe my rifle started life as a surplussed Greek Mannlicher.

Whoever did the work, was a real craftsman and I don't use the rifle with thirties period claw mounts/scope/double set triggers as much as I should. It's meant to be hunted with, just like the OP's rifle. It balances like a dream and the period scope is very sharp and clear.

But, the Tikka T3 in 6.5x55 is every bit as carry friendly, shoots like a lazer and I have a lot more brass on hand.
 
Years ago I got a good deal on a new 6.5x57 barrel, then picked up a Zastava Mauser action. Finding both brass and dies proved to be a problem. The brass could be made from 8x57, not 7x57. The 6.5x57 was never picked up as a military round, it was always just a sporting round. I ended taking the easy way out, and up having the barrel rechambered 6.5x55.
 
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