I've been keeping my eyes peeled for used 6mm rifles for awhile now and it's scarce.the more I think about it I'm tempted to get an ibi 1/7 twist for my savage 223 and just shoot the 90gr vld. I'm on a waiting list to join the local 1000yds range near by and my 75 eld are good they just are not good enough for my liking.i also head to the bush up north to shoot distance or when visiting family.i read Jerry Tao piece on 223 quite awhile ago and found it interesting.manitoba gunsmiths are hard to find the last 3 I left messages for never responded.so I'm left to rebarrel my self which makes the savage and ibi prefits the way to go if I choose to go the 223 route .I looked at the ballistics on the 6mm options and the 90 and 80's for 223's and their is a nice gap but what the Hey.anyone else who were at this fork in the road and what was your end result.im not a match shooter but I like to pit myself against me.
6mm or rebarrel 223 in 7 twist
- Thread starter Oldly
- Start date
There are no off the shelf 223 reamers that will cut a chamber to properly utilize a 88gr ELDM bullet in a 223 case. They all have much too short of a free-bore (aka leade).
The other main issue is magazine length, not many magazines (or none at all) will hold a 223 with a 88gr ELDM set ideally in the case. I haven't measured it, but you would be in the 2.65" COAL region.
If you conquer these two issues you will have a 223 that uses 25gr of powder per shot and flies a lot like a low-powered 6mm, but still has substantially less energy down range, making impact and miss spotting more difficult.
There are a handful of good bullet choices.
Or you go the low-powered 6mm route, like a 6 BR, 6 BRA, 6 Dasher. Off the shelf reamers will properly size the freebore. Off the shelf magazines with BR/Dasher insert kits will properly hold and feed the round. You can buy barrels and have the chambering done by anyone with no custom requests. You will use 30gr of powder per shot.
There are roughly a dozen good bullet choices. Bullets are a bit more expensive than the 223 option.0
Last I checked, there a few good looking 6mm BR-class precsion rifles in the CGN EE.
The other main issue is magazine length, not many magazines (or none at all) will hold a 223 with a 88gr ELDM set ideally in the case. I haven't measured it, but you would be in the 2.65" COAL region.
If you conquer these two issues you will have a 223 that uses 25gr of powder per shot and flies a lot like a low-powered 6mm, but still has substantially less energy down range, making impact and miss spotting more difficult.
There are a handful of good bullet choices.
Or you go the low-powered 6mm route, like a 6 BR, 6 BRA, 6 Dasher. Off the shelf reamers will properly size the freebore. Off the shelf magazines with BR/Dasher insert kits will properly hold and feed the round. You can buy barrels and have the chambering done by anyone with no custom requests. You will use 30gr of powder per shot.
There are roughly a dozen good bullet choices. Bullets are a bit more expensive than the 223 option.0
Last I checked, there a few good looking 6mm BR-class precsion rifles in the CGN EE.
Thanks,that is exactly were my thoughts have been bouncing about.i have tika in 1/8 and it shoots the 77 just fine.i think at the end of the day if I rebarrel the savage to shoot 80' and 90's I'm going to want that extra oomph of a 6mm,it the beast in my nature.and I'm not a single feeder,I like to get behind the scope and rack aim and shoot.and it sounds like 223 at 2.65" would require that.there are some interesting 6.5 on ee that could be rebarrelled to 6br.thanks
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
To consider - if running a 223 in PRS, the tactical division max's out at 77gr (check rules in case that changed) - and that bullet will get tired way out there.
Impacts will be very weak and you may loose points because they can't see the hits.
get into the grass and you will not have any feedback
If you really want to stay in Tactical and have to shoot out to 1000yds, the 308/175 is a better option albeit with way higher recoil
If running a 223 in open, it is greatly hampered by mags so I would not suggest. Mags do not allow longer OAL to suit the heavies so you will be single feeding
I run a 22 Creedmoor throttled way down. It works fantastically and no set up headaches
Jerry
Impacts will be very weak and you may loose points because they can't see the hits.
get into the grass and you will not have any feedback
If you really want to stay in Tactical and have to shoot out to 1000yds, the 308/175 is a better option albeit with way higher recoil
If running a 223 in open, it is greatly hampered by mags so I would not suggest. Mags do not allow longer OAL to suit the heavies so you will be single feeding
I run a 22 Creedmoor throttled way down. It works fantastically and no set up headaches
Jerry
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
It was my F TR build and my MPOD for support. Nothing expensive... Savage SA, prefit Shilen match barrel, Choate tactical stock (I would run the MDT XRS today), Sightron SIII optics.... all single load.
the key was moving to an FX120i scale and being able to control powder charges to the kernel... plus all the prep work we do for F class.
Jerry
the key was moving to an FX120i scale and being able to control powder charges to the kernel... plus all the prep work we do for F class.
Jerry
Attachments
It'll be a bit tougher to just screw on a 6BR, 6BRA, 6 Dasher or 6 Creed Barrel. If your current savage is a 223, you'll need a different bolt.
Those 6mm cartridges are inherently accurate and will easily get you to 1000. Plus they recoil and cost less than a bigger bore.
Those 6mm cartridges are inherently accurate and will easily get you to 1000. Plus they recoil and cost less than a bigger bore.
Jerry, this is one of your used 28” Shilen barrels I bought from you a long time ago. It still works. 
Oldly, the coal of these are 2.618” with 90 grain JLKs. Single feed with my MDT poly mags. Maybe with a different mag you can get them to work?
A recent ladder charge test at 200m. 24.0 grains (bottom) to 24.9 grains (top). Middle 8 charges from 24.1 to 24.8 grains are about 1/2 moa (1.261 - 0.224 = 1.037) I’m still new to this, and am using a crappy Lee press with the wandering Gempro scale. Things can improve.
All that said, this can be fiddly work, so while I still have this I have just built an IBI barrelled 6mmBR and haven’t brought it to the range yet. I wanted the ‘Easy Button’ where I can use a variety of components to play with and get good results, while I build some skills.
Oldly, the coal of these are 2.618” with 90 grain JLKs. Single feed with my MDT poly mags. Maybe with a different mag you can get them to work?
A recent ladder charge test at 200m. 24.0 grains (bottom) to 24.9 grains (top). Middle 8 charges from 24.1 to 24.8 grains are about 1/2 moa (1.261 - 0.224 = 1.037) I’m still new to this, and am using a crappy Lee press with the wandering Gempro scale. Things can improve.
All that said, this can be fiddly work, so while I still have this I have just built an IBI barrelled 6mmBR and haven’t brought it to the range yet. I wanted the ‘Easy Button’ where I can use a variety of components to play with and get good results, while I build some skills.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
jimbo14... glad the set up is working well for you. The MPOD is obviously offering a very stable and repeatable support
Load up 3 to 4 rds of each powder charge in 0.1gr increments. 24.1 to 24.8gr. At 200, it will be very obvious which is the best load.
The gempros can be a PITA but I am sure you know how to retare and keep an eye on the drift.
Nothing wrong with the Lee press... still use one.
Jerry
Load up 3 to 4 rds of each powder charge in 0.1gr increments. 24.1 to 24.8gr. At 200, it will be very obvious which is the best load.
The gempros can be a PITA but I am sure you know how to retare and keep an eye on the drift.
Nothing wrong with the Lee press... still use one.
Jerry
The best way to optimize the results of any rig (utilizing any particular brass, powder, bullet, primer combination) would be:
1) Maximize brass consistency by annealing your brass prior to sizing, and loading, EVERY time!
2) Ditch the Gempro, and get a FX120i, or similar, scale, as per Jerry
3) Strive to use bullets, and powder, from the same lots
With these changes, the trigger puller then becomes the limiting factor.
OP I asked Jerry's help to rebarrel a Tikka T3X 243 and am very happy with the choice. The barrel is a 1:8 Krieger and it shoots 100 gr very well with little recoil. It also loves the Sako 100 gr ammo which is handy for hunting. I would suggest you rebarrel your rifle with an IBI barrel in 243/6mm. The 243 brass is just easier to find.
6mm is the sweet spot for this sport.
Too many challenges to set up a .223 properly for heavies, and you really aren't gaining anything over the 6mm's.
Which 6mm is up to you. I personally shoot 6BRA, which has been an absolutely fantastic cartridge to shoot. But there's many other 6mm's that accomplish more or less the same thing, all with their own nuances.
Too many challenges to set up a .223 properly for heavies, and you really aren't gaining anything over the 6mm's.
Which 6mm is up to you. I personally shoot 6BRA, which has been an absolutely fantastic cartridge to shoot. But there's many other 6mm's that accomplish more or less the same thing, all with their own nuances.
I agree with kthomas about the .223 not gaining much on the various 6mm's, but I didn't find it to " challenging" to set my .223 up for shooting the Berger 85.5 gr. hybrid. I have a rifle built on the KS Arms 2 lug Wolverine action with a 1-7" Krieger (29") sitting in a MDT ESS. What I did have to do though, was take apart the MDT polymer mags, and filed a "groove" in the front end of the interior of mag. This allowed me to run the cartridge with a base to ogive measurement of 2.160".I also had to take a dremel tool to open up the feeding ramp ever so slightly to accommodate feeding. I believe that a .223 ISSF was used to chamber this rifle ( borrowed from Hirsch Precision ). Using N150, Lapua brass and CCI BR4's I'm between 2800-2850 if memory serves right. Now, I don't shoot PRS matches with it ( not many of these matches in Atlantic Canada), but I've been lucky enough to win F-Class matches and DCRA style PR ( sniper rifle ) matches out to 800m with it. Love shooting it, but probably not the best choice for PRS. I'd go with what kthomas says about the 6mm's for a dedicated PRS rig.
Battlerifleelitist
CGN Regular
- Location
- Annapolis Valley, NS
For recoil after so many injuries, consider a brake, even a clamp on job. Also it's easiest and cheapest to get barrel threaded before you install it yah lmao
