7.62 Spanish Mauser

Hotwheels81

Hotwheels81

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A well used 7.62x51 Mauser followed me home last nite and after a quick google investigation I discovered I may not want to feed it commercial spec .308 ammo...

I have some 150gr SMK's as well as H4895 and Varget so I may try some starting loads of that but figgerd I would see if any Nutz out there had pet loads for these rifles that keep the bullets on paper at 100m?
 
Commercial and NATO ammo have similar pressure limits. We target shooters used the small ring mauser to make target rifles and shot zillions of rounds through them.

If you handload, just avoid the max pressure loads. If you buy ammo, use whatever you find works well. It will be safe.
 
I've been shooting a bunch of 80s vintage IVI 7.62 Nato out of my m1916 and it shoots pretty decent. When that runs out I'll be shooting cast probably exclusively.

I've been loading 170gr lee gas check bullets for 7.62x39 (.311-.312), the c312-155-2r mould (ends up being about 170) with 40 gr of bl-c(2), and it shoots pretty well. I've tried some of the berry's bullets 110gr .308 plated round nose for .30 carbine with 700x and red dot with little success. Gotta get those loads worked up....

Do NOT listen to what anyone says about these guns not being able to handle full loads, being made for some aluminum bulleted CETME round or some such nonsense. Here's a snippet from a post I had on milsurps.com when i heard the same thing:



That post about the Spanish M1916's being made for the 7.62 CETME repeats a myth that was debunked long ago. The folks who did the conversions knew what they were doing, did it professionally, and were quite clear in their literature as to what cartridge these rifles were intended to use - 7.62 NATO.

m1916manual-1.jpg


The M1916's were originally made for the 7x57 cartridge, which has a SAAMI working pressure of 46000 c.u.p. (51000 p.s.i. - piezo) and a minimum proof pressure of 61500 c.u.p. (68000 p.s.i. - piezo). SAAMI working pressure for the .308 Win. is 52000 c.u.p. (62000 p.s.i. - piezo), so while the M1916's may have less reserve strength than arms originally made for the .308, it's inaccurate to state that they were proofed to only 45000 psi and therefore inherently unsuitable for 7.62 NATO/.308 Win. pressures. Nevertheless, prudent handloaders preparing ammo for the M1916's ordinarily use data for the .300 Savage, a cartridge of nearly identical capacity but with working pressure of 46000 c.u.p..

Before we get into a kerfuffle about 7.62 NATO vs. .308 Win. pressures - here's the straight dope from a reliable source:

762v308-1.jpg
 
Ya i kinda figured folks in Internet land were a bit over cautious but still this rifle is 3-4x my age so I want to be gentle to it...

I put 5rnds of federal 150's thru it today and it seems to shoot in a nice straight line out to 100M.... Although it is shooting 3' high :-O
 
Apparently when these were brought in years ago they were tested to destruction by the importer....the name escapes me, i want to say it started with a W....

Anyway, they apparently tested the guns up to 90000psi before they finally suffered "catastrophic failure." Which was not the gun blowing to pieces and takign the shooters face and hands with it, but rather the inside of the reciever where the lockign lugs on the bolt engage stretched or warped, makign it so that you could not open the rifle.

I'm searching for the appropriate article now...

EDIT: Found it

http://www.theothersideofkim.com/index.php/ggps/5637/

"Spanish “Guardia Civil” Mauser M1916 (.308 Win)
May 29, 2003
9:00 PM CST

This GGP is dedicated to Rick Lucas, with my apologies.

Shortly after WWII, the arms factory at Oviedo converted a number of the elderly 1916 Mausers from 7x57mm to .308 Win, for use by the Spanish Civil Guard, and fine-looking rifles they are too.

I read somewhere that these rifles were to be treated with circumspection, because the metal of the breech and receiver might not have been able to handle the added pressure of the more-powerful .308 Win cartridge, and I’ve mentioned that little snippet on a couple of occasions on this site.

Well, apparently I wasn’t the only one who thought this, because a bunch of Guardia Mausers were sent to H.P. White, a testing company, and tested to destruction. The SAAMI maximum of 55,000 psi (lbs/sq.in.) for the .308 Win was exceeded—and the rifles were finally destroyed at 98,000 psi!

In other words, I was talking total nonsense, and these rifles are perfectly capable of handling the .308 Win cartridge. My sincerest apologies to all, and to the Guardia Civil Mausers too.

The M1916 is based on the M1893, with a shorter barrel (21") than the older model. Possibly because of the rumors of their weakness, they are selling way below what they are really worth. The typical price is around $130 - $150, which is a steal. So if you see one and need a rifle in the wonderful .308 Win caliber, grab it.

(And everyone should have at least one .308 rifle—it’s possibly the greatest all-round cartridge ever made, and is certainly one of the most accurate cartridges ever made. And, as I’ve said before, everyone should own at least one Mauser, so with the Guardia Civil model, you get a twofer.)"
 
Spain adopted a CETME rifle, an early version of the H&K G-3. It used a reduced power cartridge version of the 7.62x51mm NATO round.
This lowerer powdered round and the quality of Oviedo Arsenal weapons may be the basis of confusion on using full power NATO rounds in an altered 1893 Mauser.
 
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These pics are the reason I bought an FR8 instead......

No details on the pics at all... sorry... I suppose the guy could have purposely destroyed the gun with a super hot load, or a crazy bore obstruction?? But...

No fear mongering here by me. I just don't know if we have all the evidence on the Spanish .308s converted from 7mms yet.

If I buy one of them, I would like to have it tested (read: blown up)... who could I send it to in Canada to have this done (professionally)?
 
Hotwheels81 said:
Ya i kinda figured folks in Internet land were a bit over cautious but still this rifle is 3-4x my age so I want to be gentle to it...

I put 5rnds of federal 150's thru it today and it seems to shoot in a nice straight line out to 100M.... Although it is shooting 3' high :-O
Click to expand...

Well, that's exactly where they should be hitting at 100 meters if you want to shoot at one mile. :)

Good thread this. About time the old myths about these rifles not being safe with factory and NATO ammo are finally put to rest.

Ted
 
If the brown deposit I see on the blown up rifle is vaporized brass, i would guess it is another rifle blown up with ball pistol powder when he intended to load ball rifle powder. A fairly common accident. 100,000+ psi will do that.....
 
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