7.62 x 51 or 7.62 x 54R

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Prairie Hunter

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I'm ordering a new SSG3000. I want to do some serious target shooting at off season. I'm looking for some surplus ammo. Just wondering if I can use 7.62 x 51 or 7.62 x 54R for the SSG3000? Since the magazine is quite long, is 7.62 x 54R going to work? Any input is appreciated.
 
Prairie Hunter said:
I'm ordering a new SSG3000. I want to do some serious target shooting at off season. I'm looking for some surplus ammo. Just wondering if I can use 7.62 x 51 or 7.62 x 54R for the SSG3000? Since the magazine is quite long, is 7.62 x 54R going to work? Any input is appreciated.
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That depends. What caliber is your new gun going to be in?
 
If your buying a ssg I would not run surplus through it
and I don't think they make a ssg in 54 r ????
the ssg is made for pin point accuracy that you won't get from surplus
 
me thinks you need to go back to school and figure out how guns work. the calibre of a gun is based on what's stamped on the barrel, not what your mag can fit/hold.

if you can afford a ssg, you can afford a reloading setup and or factory ammo.
 
.308 Winchester and 7.62x51 cartridges are externally identical in terms of dimensions. There are some ballistic, chamber, and technical difference but we don't have to get into that here.
7.62x54R is a totally different, incompatible cartridge.

They don't even have the same diameter bullet as one uses the US 7.62mm bullet which is .308" (7.82mm) and the other uses the Russian 7.62mm bullet which ranges from .310" to .312" (7.87mm to 7.92mm).
You might be able to fit a .308 cartridge into a 7.62x54R chamber as they are quite roomy but having no rim and a head size far too small means it wont sit right and will be dangerous if it manages to go off (doubt the firing pin would line up with the primer though).
A 7.62x54R wouldn't fit in a .308 chamber as they have a fatter body and the chamber wont be cut to accept a rimmed cartridge.

If you want even more confusing; a .30-30 Winchester is actually 7.62x51R in metric. Again though totally incompatible with 7.62x51 (no R).

Many debate the differences and safety of even using .308 Winchester and 7.62x51NATO interchangeably. Personally I interchange them in both military and civilian rifles and have never had an issue. Just shot some Federal Lake City XM80C 149gr 7.62x51NATO in my Rem 700 chambered in .308 today and it grouped 3/4" @ 100yds twice with both 5 shot groups I shot.
 
Tikkam65 said:
If your buying a ssg I would not run surplus through it
and I don't think they make a ssg in 54 r ????
the ssg is made for pin point accuracy that you won't get from surplus
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You are right, the SSG only comes in 308. I'm just curious, because the magazine of SSG3000 is quite long, does it mean it can use 7.62 x 54R too? I don't know. Isn't it the difference between 7.62 x 51 and 7.62 x 54R is only the length of the casing, but same diameter??
 
LUTNIT said:
.308 Winchester and 7.62x51 cartridges are externally identical in terms of dimensions. There are some ballistic, chamber, and technical difference but we don't have to get into that here.
7.62x54R is a totally different, incompatible cartridge.

They don't even have the same diameter bullet as one uses the US 7.62mm bullet which is .308" (7.82mm) and the other uses the Russian 7.62mm bullet which ranges from .310" to .312" (7.87mm to 7.92mm).
You might be able to fit a .308 cartridge into a 7.62x54R chamber as they are quite roomy but having no rim and a head size far too small means it wont sit right and will be dangerous if it manages to go off (doubt the firing pin would line up with the primer though).
A 7.62x54R wouldn't fit in a .308 chamber as they have a fatter body and the chamber wont be cut to accept a rimmed cartridge.

If you want even more confusing; a .30-30 Winchester is actually 7.62x51R in metric. Again though totally incompatible with 7.62x51 (no R).

Many debate the differences and safety of even using .308 Winchester and 7.62x51NATO interchangeably. Personally I interchange them in both military and civilian rifles and have never had an issue. Just shot some Federal Lake City XM80C 149gr 7.62x51NATO in my Rem 700 chambered in .308 today and it grouped 3/4" @ 100yds twice with both 5 shot groups I shot.
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That makes sense. I'm very new to surplus ammo. Thanks for pointing out the differences. Where did you order your Federal Lake City ones from? BTW, is the R stands for Russian?
 
Prairie Hunter said:
That makes sense. I'm very new to surplus ammo. Thanks for pointing out the differences. Where did you order your Federal Lake City ones from? BTW, is the R stands for Russian?
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stands for rimmed, cause it's a rimmed cartridge.

if there is any difference in the info for a cartridge, that means it's different and generally not interchangeable. 7.62x54r is very different from 7.62x51.
 
Prairie Hunter said:
You are right, the SSG only comes in 308. I'm just curious, because the magazine of SSG3000 is quite long, does it mean it can use 7.62 x 54R too? I don't know. Isn't it the difference between 7.62 x 51 and 7.62 x 54R is only the length of the casing, but same diameter??
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Please open up a book.

7.62x45r is the metric designation for the Russian "three line" rifle cartridge.

The 7.62x51 is the NATO designation for the .308 Winchester round. Which is derived from the 30/06.

They are two completely different chamberings. And share no common lineage.

Do not try and cram a 7.62x54r in a .308.
 
The "R" stands for "Rimmed" as the case has a rim around the base larger than the case head. Many people do make the mistake of thinking it means "Russian" though so you aren't alone.
I bought the XM80C ammo locally in Ottawa. The range I go to (Stittsville Shooting Ranges) has a store that sells a lot of firearms, ammo, reloading supplies, and hunting gear.
There was a pile of it that came into Canada though as I remember seeing a couple online retailers selling it too.

If you want really accurate factory ammo look for target bullets loaded in them. Several brands including Federal offer ammo loaded with SMK's (Sierra Match Kings) which are a premium target bullet. Hornady ammo loaded with 168gr AMAX is their own polymer tipped target bullet which is very good. Premium target ammo will cost more of course though. The military XM80C I bought was only $18.99/20 but the high end civilian stuff can run $25-$60/20rnds. That's why most people striving for accuracy end up handloading as they can put the same premium target bullets into handloads for around $.60/round.
 
Spawn-Inc said:
me thinks you need to go back to school and figure out how guns work. the calibre of a gun is based on what's stamped on the barrel, not what your mag can fit/hold.

if you can afford a ssg, you can afford a reloading setup and or factory ammo.
Click to expand...

If I knew the difference for the surplus ammo, I wouldn't post it here then. That's why I'm trying to get an educated answer.
 
LUTNIT said:
The "R" stands for "Rimmed" as the case has a rim around the base larger than the case head. Many people do make the mistake of thinking it means "Russian" though so you aren't alone.
I bought the XM80C ammo locally in Ottawa. The range I go to (Stittsville Shooting Ranges) has a store that sells a lot of firearms, ammo, reloading supplies, and hunting gear.
There was a pile of it that came into Canada though as I remember seeing a couple online retailers selling it too.

If you want really accurate factory ammo look for target bullets loaded in them. Several brands including Federal offer ammo loaded with SMK's (Sierra Match Kings) which are a premium target bullet. Hornady ammo loaded with 168gr AMAX is their own polymer tipped target bullet which is very good. Premium target ammo will cost more of course though. The military XM80C I bought was only $18.99/20 but the high end civilian stuff can run $25-$60/20rnds. That's why most people striving for accuracy end up handloading as they can put the same premium target bullets into handloads for around $.60/round.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge, I really appreciated! Wow, that sure makes quite a bit difference for handloading. I had never done handloading myself. It's kind of scary to mess around with gun powder, etc. I wish there's someone locally that can show me how to handload. Do you handload yourself?
 
7.62x25mm is also known as 7.62 Tokarev. It's a Soviet pistol cartridge.
7.62x38mmR is also known as the 7.62 Nagant. It's a Russian pre-Soviet pistol cartridge.
7.62x39mm is also known as 7.62 Soviet. Most famously used in the AK-47.
7.62x54R is also known as the 7.62 Russian. It's a Russian pre-Soviet rifle cartridge.
7.62x35mm is also known as the .300 AAC Blackout. It's a very recent US development.
7.62x51mm is also known as .308 Winchester. Most popular rifle cartridge in the world.
7.62x51mmR is also known as the .30-30 Winchester. Most popular deer hunting cartridge in North America.
7.62x63mm is also known as the .30-06. Really famous US military cartridge now used a lot by civilian hunters.
7.62x67mm is also known as the .300 Winchester Magnum. Popular US big game hunting cartridge that saw limited use with police snipers in decades past.

There are more but I figured this demonstrates it well enough.
None of these cartridges are cross compatible or interchangeable. They are all "7.62" but that doesn't mean much of anything other than it's part of their name. They can't even all use the same bullets as they range from .308" to .312".
 
Prairie Hunter said:
Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge, I really appreciated! Wow, that sure makes quite a bit difference for handloading. I had never done handloading myself. It's kind of scary to mess around with gun powder, etc. I wish there's someone locally that can show me how to handload. Do you handload yourself?
Click to expand...
I started handloading by watching dozens of hours of YouTube videos and reading several reloading handbooks. In some areas there are classes taught that are an introduction to handloading but not many places have them. One way to start is to befriend someone who handloads and ask them to be your mentor. There is a lot of good information here on CGN but there is also a lot of bad information as well. Until you get to a certain point in terms of knowledge it can be really difficult to tell the difference.

Some good YouTube users for reloading videos:
Iraqveteran8888 (a tad abrasive sometimes but quite knowledgeable)
AmmoSmith Reloading
Gavintoobe
The Ammo Channel (often more esoteric stuff like casting)

To start off I'd get at least 2 different reloading manuals of the most recent edition and read them cover to cover (okay, I say that but you don't need to read all the load data in detail). You can order them from Amazon even. The major brands are Speer, Lyman, Hornady, Lee, Barnes, and some others. Most of the companies that write reloading manuals also sell component bullets (projectiles) for reloading so you can look around for those. Another book that I found quite usefull was "The ABC's of Reloading". It doesn't go too in depth into anything but is a good general introduction.
 
BeaverMeat said:
Please open up a book.

7.62x45r is the metric designation for the Russian "three line" rifle cartridge.

The 7.62x51 is the NATO designation for the .308 Winchester round. Which is derived from the 30/06.

They are two completely different chamberings. And share no common lineage.

Do not try and cram a 7.62x54r in a .308.
Click to expand...

Now I understand the differences for different caliber after LUTNIT explains everything in detail.
 
LUTNIT said:
I started handloading by watching dozens of hours of YouTube videos and reading several reloading handbooks. In some areas there are classes taught that are an introduction to handloading but not many places have them. One way to start is to befriend someone who handloads and ask them to be your mentor. There is a lot of good information here on CGN but there is also a lot of bad information as well. Until you get to a certain point in terms of knowledge it can be really difficult to tell the difference.

Some good YouTube users for reloading videos:
Iraqveteran8888 (a tad abrasive sometimes but quite knowledgeable)
AmmoSmith Reloading
Gavintoobe
The Ammo Channel (often more esoteric stuff like casting)

To start off I'd get at least 2 different reloading manuals of the most recent edition and read them cover to cover (okay, I say that but you don't need to read all the load data in detail). You can order them from Amazon even. The major brands are Speer, Lyman, Hornady, Lee, Barnes, and some others. Most of the companies that write reloading manuals also sell component bullets (projectiles) for reloading so you can look around for those. Another book that I found quite usefull was "The ABC's of Reloading". It doesn't go too in depth into anything but is a good general introduction.
Click to expand...

That's really good advice. Nowadays what can't you find from YouTube?! Thanks for sharing the links and all resources. I'll definitely check them out. It's better to learn and understand all the concepts and steps before jump right in.
 
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