7.62x39.....is it a MBR cartridge ?

I was watching black hawk down and they were describing the "enemy" fire as small arms fire........ so i'm guessing the 7.62x39 is considered "small arms" and not MBR LOL
I would agree with the idea that the 7.62x39 is an "intermediate" cartridge in that even though it is a 30 CAL it is for relatively short range, unlike it's cousin the 7.62x51, which is described by many as a full power cartridge.

from where i sit...... MBR is for our purposes, a CGN thing.... and there are many full power cartidged rifles that would fit into this category.

but argue on... this thread is darn entertaining LOL
 
Armedsask said:
Nope, service rifle is the rifles used by a military. A battle rifle or assault rifle can both be service rifles.

I don't understand why people find this so hard to grasp.
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You just repeated what I said. He was suggesting that an 'MBR' is a rifle used as a primary arm by a branch of service, I was suggesting he was thinking about service rifles.
 
tacfoley said:
Sir - you are not reading me.

The inventor of the FAL called it a rifle.

The makers of the FAL called it a rifle.

The users call it a rifle. Still do.

The authors of every book about the FAL called it a rifle.

The military training pamphlets of every nation that adopted it called it a rifle.

It is still called a rifle - the name - Fusil - means 'rifle' in the language of the inventor and original manufacturer, FN.

Please show me where the FAL is called an assault rifle.

Please show me where the M16 is called an assault rifle.

Please put me in contact with any member of the Canadian Armed forces, who, at any time, called ANY weapon in his hands 'an 'assault rifle'.

tac
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LOL I'll put you in touch with my reservist roommate. Be wary; he's an infantier and he hates guns and thinks they should be banned. He also votes liberal because he thinks the conservatives are ####ing over the army. (LOL) This is as far as his knowledge about his C7 goes "If I pull the trigger the bullet comes out here. If I push this thing It comes apart so I can clean it" Also it should be noted that after two years of service I saw him put a c7 together wrong and I almost cried. (He put in the firing pin in backwards...how in the hell?) When me and my friend were asking about the c7 (we're both heading to basic in spring so we were curious) he couldn't answer even the most simple/basic questions about AR's.
 
If 7.62x39 is'nt a MBR cartridge, then are there only really 2 classifications that are used. Therefore the 7.62x39 is a intermediate cartridge, and falls in the same category as 5.56Nato ?

I just don't see how 7.62x39 and 5.56 should be in the same category.
 
A great debate, with interesting and well thought-out arguments from both sides of the "camp". I spent nearly 10 years in the Reserves, using both the FNC1A1, C7 and other interesting toys, all the way up to the 105mm Howitzer. I also own RIFLES that fire both the 7.62x39 (4 SKS's) and 308 Win (PolyTech M305), and I think of both types as military or military-type rifles. Period. On another thread, I tried to stir up some debate by calling them all "battle rifles". BTW, I have never even heard of the term until I joined CGN.

Ask a Vietnam vet what his opinion is on the 7.62x39 and the SKS/AK! I would hazzard a guess that they respect the calibre, and it certainly was the main battle calibre of the North Vietnamese army! -- An intermediate range "main battle riflle"
 
blueflash said:
I just don't see how 7.62x39 and 5.56 should be in the same category.
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Intermediate cartridges.

Country Round Weight Muzzle Velocity Sectional Density
USA 5.56x45mm M193 55gr 3,250fps 0.158
USA/NATO 5.56x45mm M855 62gr 3,100fps 0.178
USA 6x45mm SAW XM732 105gr 2,500fps 0.265
Russia 7.62x39mm M43 125gr 2,329fps 0.185
Russia 5.45x39 53gr 2,932fps 0.155
Russia 6x49mm UMG 80gr 3,772fps 0.205
Belgium 5.7x28mm SS190 31gr 2,346fps 0.088
China 5.8x42mm 65gr 3,050fps 0.179
UK/Belgium 7x44 or 7x49 140gr 2,529-2,591fps 0.255

Intermediate cartridges are military rifle cartridges that are less powerful than typical full power battle rifle cartridges such as the 7.92mm Mauser or US .30-06, but still significantly more powerful than the pistol cartridges (e.g. 9mm Parabellum) used in sub-machine guns.[1] As their recoil is significantly reduced compared to high power rifle cartridges, fully automatic rifles firing intermediate cartridges are relatively easy to control. However, even though less powerful than a traditional rifle cartridge, the ballistics are still sufficient for an effective range of 250–500 metres (820–1,600 ft), which are the maximum typical engagement ranges in combat. This allowed for the development of the assault rifle concept, which is a selective fire weapon that is more compact and lighter than rifles firing full power cartridges. The first intermediate cartridge was the German 7.92x33mm Kurz.[1] Other examples include the Soviet 7.62x39mm used in the AK-47 and AKM series, and the .280 British round developed for the EM-2. The 5.56x45mm NATO cartridge is also an intermediate cartridge.

Any clearer now?
 
Food for thought: StG. is a German abbreviation for Sturmgewehr. Literal English translation: Storm rifle. Cultural interpretation: Assault Rifle. The Austrians called the FN FAL StG.58 and the Swiss called the Sig 510 Stgw.57. They must be hardcore thinking 7.62x51 and 7.5x55 are intermediate.

Another exercise in typing skills: How is a cartridge a full power rifle round? Don't give a list of full power rifle cartridges, but an actual definition. Is it a cartridge that is capable of delivering 3500+ joules of muzzle energy or having a certain case length.
 
a0jc said:
Food for thought: StG. is a German abbreviation for Sturmgewehr. Literal English translation: Storm rifle. Cultural interpretation: Assault Rifle. The Austrians called the FN FAL StG.58 and the Swiss called the Sig 510 Stgw.57. They must be hardcore thinking 7.62x51 and 7.5x55 are intermediate.

Another exercise in typing skills: How is a cartridge a full power rifle round? Don't give a list of full power rifle cartridges, but an actual definition. Is it a cartridge that is capable of delivering 3500+ joules of muzzle energy or having a certain case length.
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What are you on about now? I know what Sturmgewehr means, I speak German, I grew up there, but what does that have to do with 5.56 and 7.62X39 both being intermediate cartridges? Nothing that's what.
Is it that hard to figure out that both of those calibers are less powerful than 7.62X51 or 7.62X54R?
Can you not tell the difference? Are you f*cking with me???
mugatu_crazy_pills.jpg
 
J996 said:
What are you on about now? I know what Sturmgewehr means, I speak German, I grew up there, but what does that have to do with 5.56 and 7.62X39 both being intermediate cartridges? Nothing that's what.
Is it that hard to figure out that both of those calibers are less powerful than 7.62X51 or 7.62X54R?
Can you not tell the difference? Are you f*cking with me???
mugatu_crazy_pills.jpg
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Whoa buddy. Relax there. Take breather. Maybe let off those crazy pills. Seems like you have an inflated ego and are quick tempered. What makes you think it was a personal attack? Did I quote you? I didn't even acknowledge your post. First part was sarcastic but I guess sarcasm doesn't translate well over the internet. Trying to emphasize that the term MBR is not cut and dry. Second part: Did I say I don't know what the difference between the two is? I didn't even refer to intermediate rounds. I'm asking forum members what their take is on full power rifle rounds are since we're already on the topic of MBR. Guess I worded it wrong and it came out as "there is no such thing as full power rounds".

Wait, no, be mad. Internet is serious business! RAGE!
 
a0jc said:
Whoa buddy. Relax there. Take breather. Maybe let off those crazy pills. Seems like you have an inflated ego and are quick tempered. What makes you think it was a personal attack? Did I quote you? I didn't even acknowledge your post. First part was sarcastic but I guess sarcasm doesn't translate well over the internet. Trying to emphasize that the term MBR is not cut and dry. Second part: Did I say I don't know what the difference between the two is? I didn't even refer to intermediate rounds. I'm asking forum members what their take is on full power rifle rounds are since we're already on the topic of MBR.

Wait, no, be mad. Internet is serious business! RAGE!
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Oops...sorry guy, my bad:D
I thought you were responding to me as I did just post a list of calibers and also mentioned ze Germans and the assault rifle.
After reading your post more carefully I realize that was not the case.
My apologies.
 
J996 said:
Oops...sorry guy, my bad:D
I thought you were responding to me as I did just post a list of calibers and also mentioned ze Germans and the assault rifle.
After reading your post more carefully I realize that was not the case.
My apologies.
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No worries. It happens. The wonders of electronic communication, eh?:rolleyes:
 
Now that I find that MBR is a CGN term and not common knowledge, why don't we just split the difference and call the 7.62x39 Main Battle Rifle "Lite"

I happen to love the round in a bolt action rifle. It kills deer cleanly within the proper range, cheap to shoot and just darn fun! :)

It is a Battle rifle round technically as the SKS that it was designed for is actually a poor mans battle rifle that never really caught on too well in 1945. The AK-47 was just a later experiment that took advantage of the already created round and just applied it to the Kalashnikov.
 
Battle rifle is a common term, thats used everywere. I understand the reasoning of why some people don't classify 7.62x39 as a battle rifle, but I just would'nt put it in the same class of 5.56 nato.

I am constantly hearing how our troops in the middle east feel like that they are under gunned, when they are shooting there M16 rifles against AK47's. I don't know how many times I have read or heard that our soldiers have to wait to be within range of the enemy to fire against them, while the enemy is reaching them already.

I thought that there are designated marksmans now in each squad that are equiped with M14 rifles for that reason.

This is why I don't classify the 7.62x39 in the same category as 5.56 Nato.

223 for deer hunting ? NO ..... 7.62x39 for deer hunting ? YES ...... Not in the same category IMHO.

I actually think that there should be 3 different categories and the 7.62x39 should be in the middle, because I don't really think that it is a battle rifle cartridge or a intermediate cartridge. Although it is closest to the battle rifle IMHO because of the size of bullets........123 and 154gr bullets are'nt intermediate. From 100 yard distances, there is'nt much difference in the being hit by either a 150gr .308 or a 154gr 7.62x39.
 
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