7.62x39mm Tactical bolt rifle?
- Thread starter Epoxy7
- Start date
It's a matter of compromise as far as bore diameter is concerned. Wouldn't be a bad medium range option, however, if one were to select 7.62x39mm as a cartridge of preference, wouldn't you want a .310-.311 bore, rather than .308, to take advantage of ample surplus ammo (prefrably non-corrosive) for general plinking?
As a precision rifle, one would be limited by the availability of match grade ammunition and reloading components for this cartridge. Not much in the way of match grade .310-.311 bullet selection in 120gr.-130gr. range. Lapua still makes 7.62x39mm match brass if I'm not mistaken, so that's a good thing.
Then there are other considerations as well. Such as the relative difficulty in finding an aftermarket match grade barrel blank in this diameter. Obviously, this is where the .308 bore advantage lies along with match bullet selection.
For me, if I was going to build a rifle in 7.62x39mm, the main advantage would be being able to use surplus or ecomomically priced ammo for practice or frequent usage. Otherwise, I think one would be better off to just handload a .308 Win. with reduced velocities to achieve the same results.
As a precision rifle, one would be limited by the availability of match grade ammunition and reloading components for this cartridge. Not much in the way of match grade .310-.311 bullet selection in 120gr.-130gr. range. Lapua still makes 7.62x39mm match brass if I'm not mistaken, so that's a good thing.
Then there are other considerations as well. Such as the relative difficulty in finding an aftermarket match grade barrel blank in this diameter. Obviously, this is where the .308 bore advantage lies along with match bullet selection.
For me, if I was going to build a rifle in 7.62x39mm, the main advantage would be being able to use surplus or ecomomically priced ammo for practice or frequent usage. Otherwise, I think one would be better off to just handload a .308 Win. with reduced velocities to achieve the same results.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Love the rd and can offer Vmax bullets for varminting/hunting. More then enough for close range deer too.
For a tactical rifle, there are simply no 10rds mags. Converting an AK or Mini 30 mag would be possible and might yield legal 10rds mags??????
The CZ would be one of the easiest/only det mag bolt rifle but extending the mag would make it pretty long. If all you want is 5rds, good to go.
The Ruger is a fixed mag. Never seen reports of any reasonable accuracy but that can be due to mismatch of bore, throat and bullet. A rebarrel will solve all the above.
Mini30 is already to go but again, accuracy is more min of bad guy then pin point accuracy.
A savage can easily be converted and the new mag does feed a few rds before stacking renders the mag inoperable (yep, already been there and tested it). The 223 mag houses the rd easily with lots of extra room.
Now if you could make an adapter to put an AK mag into a Savage, you have more options for stocks and accessories.
I see the main weakness in this project as the mag...
Jerry
For a tactical rifle, there are simply no 10rds mags. Converting an AK or Mini 30 mag would be possible and might yield legal 10rds mags??????
The CZ would be one of the easiest/only det mag bolt rifle but extending the mag would make it pretty long. If all you want is 5rds, good to go.
The Ruger is a fixed mag. Never seen reports of any reasonable accuracy but that can be due to mismatch of bore, throat and bullet. A rebarrel will solve all the above.
Mini30 is already to go but again, accuracy is more min of bad guy then pin point accuracy.
A savage can easily be converted and the new mag does feed a few rds before stacking renders the mag inoperable (yep, already been there and tested it). The 223 mag houses the rd easily with lots of extra room.
Now if you could make an adapter to put an AK mag into a Savage, you have more options for stocks and accessories.
I see the main weakness in this project as the mag...
Jerry
It would help if I actually learned how to read the whole post before I replied
Remington model 799 came/comes in 7.62x39
or a ruger http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firea...&finish=Finish&blength=Barrel+Length&work=Yes
not much out there for tactical rifles unless you like old wood tactical ak47 looks.
I've got a Ruger M77 in 7.62x39 and it groups five rounds into less than two inches at 200m with fed blue box 123gr SP every time. Not quite as good with the surplus ammo but clays at 200m are still no problem. Maybe not enough for some but I love it.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
The idea of a precision 7.62X39 rifle makes my head hurt. Long range or short a .308 does it better, if you need frangible bullets, then choose them. The 7.62X39 rifle will be no smaller, it will be no more accurate, and even if the rifle was made with a .308 bore, it answers no question that anyone is asking. Could it be done? Sure, if that is the only reason to persue it.
Get a AIA SMLE
Absolutely agree with Boomer.
You want a 10 rd. mag? Get a Australian International Arms SMLE repro in .308W. They use the standard M14 clip loading 10 rds, they are amazingly accurate (barrel is assembled to receiver with adjustable screw ring (à la Savage?)). Marstar sells them with a 4-12 scope (choice of reticule). Mine groups below one inch at 100m when I use the scope and standard PMC M80 ball ammo. Stock is beautiful and the SMLE has the reputation of being the fastest military bolt action ever. Germans in WWI thought they were facing semi-autos. Wikipedia: "The current world record for aimed bolt-action fire was set in 1914 by a musketry instructor in the British Army—Sergeant Instructor Snoxall—who placed 38 rounds into a 12 inch wide target at 300 yards (270 m) in one minute."
Plus, you have zillions of bullet types/weights in .308 and can make cartridges suited to your needs. Cheers, Gefreiter.
Absolutely agree with Boomer.
You want a 10 rd. mag? Get a Australian International Arms SMLE repro in .308W. They use the standard M14 clip loading 10 rds, they are amazingly accurate (barrel is assembled to receiver with adjustable screw ring (à la Savage?)). Marstar sells them with a 4-12 scope (choice of reticule). Mine groups below one inch at 100m when I use the scope and standard PMC M80 ball ammo. Stock is beautiful and the SMLE has the reputation of being the fastest military bolt action ever. Germans in WWI thought they were facing semi-autos. Wikipedia: "The current world record for aimed bolt-action fire was set in 1914 by a musketry instructor in the British Army—Sergeant Instructor Snoxall—who placed 38 rounds into a 12 inch wide target at 300 yards (270 m) in one minute."
Plus, you have zillions of bullet types/weights in .308 and can make cartridges suited to your needs. Cheers, Gefreiter.
Seems that 95% of the people looking for a rifle in 7.62x39, do so in order to make use of cheap milsurp ammo - this is the worst of reasons IMO. The word "Precision" should never be associated with the surplus ammo available in 7.62x39. The other 5% might be intrigued by the potential of having a very light compact rifle that is an excellent basis for subsonic loads, but always with handloads.
That cartridge could be used to produce a really nice and very accurate short range gun no question.
I do agree that it would be best to neck down to .308 for the HUGE selection of bullets out there.
Remember that the 6PPC - the world's most accurate cartridge - is basically a 6-7.62X39 improved cartridge, and you would be producing a variant of the 30PPC.
Lapua brass is made in 7.62X39 and you would be limited only by your imagination. A 308 bolt face will work with most PPC cartridges (Although I dislike them, a Sako extractor would assure proper working) , so rifle platforms are limited only by the magazine system you would like to use.
I think the idea is very workable and should produce a nice rifle in the end.
I do agree that it would be best to neck down to .308 for the HUGE selection of bullets out there.
Remember that the 6PPC - the world's most accurate cartridge - is basically a 6-7.62X39 improved cartridge, and you would be producing a variant of the 30PPC.
Lapua brass is made in 7.62X39 and you would be limited only by your imagination. A 308 bolt face will work with most PPC cartridges (Although I dislike them, a Sako extractor would assure proper working) , so rifle platforms are limited only by the magazine system you would like to use.
I think the idea is very workable and should produce a nice rifle in the end.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Going to a 30 PPC would negate the option of blasting with surplus. In a good barrel with a decent/proper throat, ball can shoot surprisingly well. We are just used to shooting in SKS and CZ's which are also not tack drivers so the accuracy is best described as 'lasy'.
With this case capacity and mag length, you will likely gravitate to bullet no heavier then 125gr in the 30cal anyways so you are not giving up anything with 310bore. I really can't see much accuracy benefit given the rifle configuration.
Hornady does make a few accurate bullets now for the 310 so you are not giving up much to the 30 match bullets.
How handy are you with word working? If you are, why not grab a wood stocked CZ or BRUNO and make the stock you want?
I used to have a Fox in 222 and really liked this micro mauser action. With the set triggers, it was lovely to shoot.
You are definitely on the right track for a light, small compact short range rifle that offers a good thump.
Another would be the Savage 340 in 30-30. Fugly but functional. Det mag allowing the use of pointy bullets. 30-30 can be juiced up quite nicely (although brass life will suck). wood stock so easily modified. Side mount scope mounting but that works.
I have had a few of these too and always had fun with them. Wonder what they would do with a barrel swap.
Jerry
With this case capacity and mag length, you will likely gravitate to bullet no heavier then 125gr in the 30cal anyways so you are not giving up anything with 310bore. I really can't see much accuracy benefit given the rifle configuration.
Hornady does make a few accurate bullets now for the 310 so you are not giving up much to the 30 match bullets.
How handy are you with word working? If you are, why not grab a wood stocked CZ or BRUNO and make the stock you want?
I used to have a Fox in 222 and really liked this micro mauser action. With the set triggers, it was lovely to shoot.
You are definitely on the right track for a light, small compact short range rifle that offers a good thump.
Another would be the Savage 340 in 30-30. Fugly but functional. Det mag allowing the use of pointy bullets. 30-30 can be juiced up quite nicely (although brass life will suck). wood stock so easily modified. Side mount scope mounting but that works.
I have had a few of these too and always had fun with them. Wonder what they would do with a barrel swap.
Jerry
I was just thinkin that
While .300 Whisper is a very interesting cartridge, I don't think it offers anywhere near the flexibility that a 7.62x39mm chambering would offer. If a person wanted subsonic .30 cal. performance, that's easily achieved with hadloading and you still have all the inherent flexibility of the round.
Wether or not the magazine issue is of importance depends on the usage and application of the rifle. IMHO, high capacity mags on bolts are of limited practical value. I personally don't see it as an issue, myself, for the type of shooting I do. If I needed more than 5 rds. capacity for any application, I'll probably be better served with a semi-auto and 10 rds. capacity mags.
Wether or not the magazine issue is of importance depends on the usage and application of the rifle. IMHO, high capacity mags on bolts are of limited practical value. I personally don't see it as an issue, myself, for the type of shooting I do. If I needed more than 5 rds. capacity for any application, I'll probably be better served with a semi-auto and 10 rds. capacity mags.
