7.62x51 question (varget)

Claven2

Claven2

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Two of my load manuals list the start load for .308 Winchester using 150gr FMJ bullets as 44gr, not to exceed 47gr. This is with .308 brass.

Can I safely use the same start load with varget in nato 7.62 cases? That is to say the following load:

44gr varget in 7.62 NATO cases, CCI 34 primers.

I'm assuming the start load for .308 is probably equivalent to a mid-range load in the smaller volume NATO cases - thoughts?

The rifle is an M14S with a tight chamber and SAAMI headspace.
 
There is much variation in 308 commercial case capacity and the same applies to 7.62x51 military brass, so IMO there is no simple answer (certainly no formula) to how your loads should vary between the two.

IMO, I'd work well below the max load for Varget in the M14. If it was me, I'd try to develop a good load with Varget and the 150gr Hornady in the 40.0 to 43.0 gr range (MV's of about 2600-2750 fps) with the Military "DA" brass I have that has about 2.0 grs less capacity than my average commercial brass.
 
Personally, I wouldn't use Varget in my M14S. I use WC844 or WC735.

However, with my bolt .308 (Savage 10) I've used 45gn Varget in Lake City 07 cases with great results. It takes me 46.5gn to get extractor marking/flattened primers in these same cases, so if I were you I wouldn't drop the charge a full 2 grains - maybe try 44gn to start, and I'd think 45gn is about where you'd want to top out. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that you'll be happy with 44gn Varget if that's the only powder you plan on using... otherwise I think you'll like 844, 735, H335, IMR4895, or H4895 better. YMMV.

-M
 
I think that higher is still safe in the M14, but I prefer to operate the 150 gr with an accurate load in the 2700 fps range, and make it easier on the gun.

Some (many) will disagree, but I consider Varget on the slow end of powders I would use - I like H4895 and IMR-4064 and Varget is a wee bit slower.
 
I normally would use H4895, but as chance would have it, I happen to have a LOT of Varget powder and need to use some of it.

I'd decoded to start at about 41.7gr and see how that works out. If I get sooty necks or the gun isn't cycling well enough, I'll work up toward 44gr and go from there.

The cases are Hirtenberger from the 70's but I also have a fair bit of IVI. The Hirtenberger cases seem to be about halfway between IVI brass and commercial brass for capacity.

I guess worst case I could use commercial brass ;) I have hundreds of cases of commercial.
 
"...consider Varget on the slow end..." It's faster than BL-C2. BL-C2 and Varget are both good .308 powders. Varget is one of the 'go to' powders for U.S. high power target shooters. At least the shooters still using .308's.
"...CCI 34..." You don't need 'em. They're nothing but a marketing gimmick for magnum primers.
 
CCI34's aren't magnum primers, are they? [EDIT: I'll be darned, they ARE magnum primers... well then, that explains how hot my 44gn of WC844 goes, lol!]

They've definitely got a thicker cup... and I got 'em at about the same price as I got my regular CCI large rifles, so I use 'em all the time in the M14S. There really is much less firing pin peening if one examines an extracted but unfired cartridge, IMO. It is true that you don't need them, but I like 'em... ;)

-M
 
Andy said:
I think that higher is still safe in the M14, but I prefer to operate the 150 gr with an accurate load in the 2700 fps range, and make it easier on the gun.

Some (many) will disagree, but I consider Varget on the slow end of powders I would use - I like H4895 and IMR-4064 and Varget is a wee bit slower.
Click to expand...

Check a burn rate chart and you will find varget is faster than the powders that you mensioned .varget is 56 ,h4895 is 60 ,imr 4064 is63.the higher the number the slower the burn rate.I use h335 its in the middle of Bl-c2 and h4895.
 
So now it's a powder burn rate debate? Look at 10 charts and you'll see 10 variations, particularly for the powders in the middle of the range, and the most variable is BL-C(2) - it migrates from front to back. I typically use Hodgdon's own published Burn Rate Chart when comparing Hodgdon and/or IMR powders:

http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html

Even then, you'll find that in actual use, where the powders rank will vary a bit according to cartridge and bullet.

As for the original question, I'd use Varget in the M14 in such as way as to produce MV's in the 2650 to 2750 fps range. I would not recommend powders much slower than Varget (but others might disagree - and did).
 
OK, well since there seems to be some debate about Varget in the M14, I'll post results after I get to shoot the gun with these loads. I've got sample loads worked up between 41.7gr to 43.0gr in Hirtenberger NATO cases using Hornady 150gr FMJ's.

Timing will depend on when I get a replacement bolt stop in the mail as my Rooster33 ones was defective and I'm waiting for a replacement part.

Gun particulars are a M305 barelled action with the rest being HRA M14 parts in a GI glass stock. Headspace is on the tight side of SAAMI. Glass is a Bushnell Elite 3200 10X mildot target scope, ARMS18 mount and ARMS22 rings.

If the Varget isn't performing in the M14, I'll go back to my old H4895 load :)
 
DocM, you,ve mentioned WC844 powder, would you know how close the burn rate is to WC845? I've not heard of the 844 number. Thanks
 
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