7.62x54R surplus pulled, powder averaged and new projectile installed, TEST

jeanlikethis

jeanlikethis

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I have ten Russian 762x54R surplus and ten Chinese 762x54R surplus FMJ bullets pulled, then powder weighted, averaged out, refilled, and new projectile installed as following:

Russian------:

Original:
FMJ pulled, weighted to be 150.2gr, powder weighed to be 45.4gr. 10 rounds processed.

New installation:
.311, 174gr Honady FMJ, 45gr (Changed to 42 gr) powder (original powder) , 5 rounds.
.308, 168gr Honday HPBT, 45gr (Changed to 42 gr) powder, 5 rounds

Chinese -----:

Original:
FMJ pulled, weighted to be 150.0gr, powder weighed to be 44.2gr. 10 rounds processed.

New installation:
.311, 174gr Honady FMJ, 42gr powder (original powder) , 5 rounds.
.308, 168gr Honday HPBT, 42gr powder, 5 rounds

I would like to see if surplus rounds with precise powder charge and projectile would perform better, or, close to hand load.

I also would like to see if my Mosin would take .308 projectile and perform the same or close to .311 projectile.

As I found installing the .308 projectile to the case feels lose, I crimped all rounds so the projectile would be sitting safe and form.

Photo attached below:

from Left:

Chinese 42gr, 174gr FMJ
Chinese 42gr, 168gr HPBT
Russian 45gr(Changed to 42 gr), 174gr FMJ
Russian 45gr(Changed to 42 gr), 168gr HPBT

All rounds will be tested this Satur and results will be posted.

Any thing I need to pay attention to before pulling the trigger? Thanks.

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Methinks your Russian loads will be a bit hot to the tune of 4 gr on the 174's and 2.5 on the 168 gr bullets

The Chinese ones will be about 2 gr hot on the 180's and .5 gr hot on the 180's the way you loaded them.

Hogdons data drops about gr of powder going from 150 to 174 gr bullets.

Wait one... You are loading .311" bullets in a 30 cal bore?!?
 
I checked the loading data center. For 180 .311 bullet, the data shows:

Varget, 4064, 4895 maximum loads are: 46.5, 45.9, 45.7 gr.

I would assume for 174gr .311 FMJ, 45gr of original surplus charge would be safe?

------------

No, I am loading .308 bullet to .311 bore. I would try to throw a .308 project tile (168gr) in my Mosin and see how it performs. I have read some posts that people do this and .308 runs similar to .311, but seems .311 has better group. I would like to have simplified inventory of projectile and also, .311 HPBT is hard to find.
 
jeanlikethis said:
I checked the loading data center. For 180 .311 bullet, the data shows:

Varget, 4064, 4895 maximum loads are: 46.5, 45.9, 45.7 gr. I would assume for 174gr .311 FMJ, 45gr of original surplus charge would be safe?
------------

No, I am loading .308 bullet to .311 bore. I would try to throw a .308 project tile (168gr) in my Mosin and see how it performs. I have read some posts that people do this and .308 runs similar to .311, but seems .311 has better group. I would like to have simplified inventory of projectile and also, .311 HPBT is hard to find.
Click to expand...

What the he!! suggests to you that an unknown foreign made powder will be anywhere close to these domestic powders. Your willingness to experiment with an unknown powder with much heavier bullets show a dangerous attitude that needs much more experience and understanding of what your doing before proceeding, at least do the other members of your gun club a favor and only do your "testing" when alone at the range...much safer for them this way.
 
The OP was starting under what the original load was, with the same powder, by 0.4 grs. Not exactly being daring.
Now lowering down by 3.4gr may be too much of a drop.
I would start at 44grs of the original powder, that would be 97% of original 45.4gr load.
 
I did a lot of online research and people saying the stick powder of MN is almost the same as IMR 4895. So, I picked the 180gr projectile starting load: 42gr of powder charge.


IMR4895 .308" 2.975" 42.5 2,433 39,200 CUP 45.7 2,602 46,100 CUP

It is too late to add back up, I have already burned the surplus amount. Feels like I have saved another round amount by lower the original charge.

Russina 3.4gr x 10 =34gr
Chinese 2.2gr x 10 = 22 gr

totally saved 56 gr of stick powder, equivalent of 3 feet flame when burning.

By the way, the Chinese powder is very much like Russian one from what I can see visually.
 
42 gr sounds like a good place to start.

When you test, make sure you shoot some milsurp ammo too, so we can see a before and after for accuracy.

Are you using the open sights? If so, that is a limiting factor and the accuracy improvement could be lost in the crude sights.
 
I'm not knowledgeable enough to offer advice but I wanted to take the time to thank you for sharing your experiment with us. I'm looking forward to see your results.
 
You can experiment with the same propellant in the same cartridge using lesser charges for heavier bullets and get away with it provided you start low and watch for pressure indicators with incrementally larger charges. People have been making "mexican match" ammo for a long time by pulling military ball bullets and then swapping in a higher quality match bullet of similar or greater weight.

These propellants are unknown so it isn't a good idea to try to ID them or make comparisons to other powders on the basis of appearance. One powder may look exactly like another, but its burning rate may be quite different due to a different deterrent coating.

Shooting .308 diameter bullets in place of .311 dia bullets can work, but accuracy generally won't be the same. Its a good idea to slug the bore to determine just what the diameter is. Some of the Finnish Mosin barrels are tighter and do shoot .308 dia bullets very well.
 
Ganderite said:
42 gr sounds like a good place to start.

When you test, make sure you shoot some milsurp ammo too, so we can see a before and after for accuracy.

Are you using the open sights? If so, that is a limiting factor and the accuracy improvement could be lost in the crude sights.
Click to expand...

I will use 5 rounds to sight in and warm up. Then enter the test firing. Will have surplus as control group for sure.

I am using a rear sight scout mount 2-7 power LER scope.
 
Interesting post. Keep us up to date on how things go. FYI, I've shot .308 bullets in my No4Mk1 and didn't see any accuracy problems, groups were about the same at 100y as loads with .311 bullets. To get around the problem of loose fitting .308 bullets, I did the following: After case prep (sizing/decapping), I added an extra step by removing the decapping rod from the sizing die and then running the case through the die again without the decapping/expander rod. This sizes the neck down sufficiently to hold the .308 bullet firmly.
 
Just fyi, I did what the OP did--pull the 150 grainers and put 174 gr seirras after dropping the original charge 3.5 grains. I molycoated the bullets to help lessen pressure. So far, has only been shot in cold weather--so far, so good---but have yet to see what happens in warm weather shooting. Time to get a chronograph!
 
fingers284 said:
What the he!! suggests to you that an unknown foreign made powder will be anywhere close to these domestic powders. Your willingness to experiment with an unknown powder with much heavier bullets show a dangerous attitude that needs much more experience and understanding of what your doing before proceeding, at least do the other members of your gun club a favor and only do your "testing" when alone at the range...much safer for them this way.
Click to expand...

I have reloaded 174 .311 SMK rounds for my SVT40 with no issues. Many of the bores for these are .311 . Powder was 43.4 of Varget. No issues. That's in a semi auto. I reload that for 308 as well using 175 SMK. The 7.62x54R has more case capacity than the 308 round. It should be able to handle this. It's more the Russian 30 06.

On a side note Lapua 7.62x53 brass is 7.62x54R .
 
My guess is you won't see any improvement. Generally 0.308 bullets don't perform very well in Russian rifles (tried 155, 168 and 190 HPBT match). The Hornady 0.312 FMJ bullets (#3131) aren't significantly better than the surplus projectiles. Hornady 3130G HPBT 174 gn bullet work well but are expensive.

Experimenting is part of the sport but this experiment is sort of odd. By far the most expensive component in reloading is the projectile. Since this experiment uses the original surplus case the result is corrosive ammunition (primer). Usually people interested in economy use the surplus ammunition to provide donor bullet (and less commonly the powder) which are then loaded into brass cases with non corrosive primers.

A bag of 100 (PRVI) brass cases is about $75 and primers are running about 4-5 cents each. Cases will last at least 10 re-loadings so the brass case and new primer adds about 11 cents per shot to your surplus round cost.
 
Hi,

I went to the range today and started the plan. However, after several warm up shot, I found it is very hard to sight in and zero the scope. I adjust couple of rounds and still, the zero is not holding.

Finally, I found the reason, the huge recoil of the Mosin kicked my scout mount out of the rail just in the first 5 to 6 rounds. I was sighting in while the scope is just one ring attached to the rifle....

With no easy way to fix this issue, I came back home to find the solution. All test rounds untouched. Will post the firing test results later with firm scope mount.
 
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Finally fixed the scope and went to the range today, after sight in, I conducted the test.

Result post:

1. Original surplus (Norinco)
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2. Original case, bullets, but powder averaged to 42gr
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3. Norinco with 42gr powder, 168gr HPBT
213llir.png


4. Norinco with 42gr powder, 174gr FMJ
6rnk1i.png


5. Russian with 42gr powder 168 HPBT
1q4hz5.jpg


6. Russian with 42gr powder, 174gr FMJ
ieqfjc.png




Best results from Norincal 42gr 168gr HPBT. Personal feel the recoil is less. And a little bit comfortable to shoot. Original surplus group is not that bad either.

FMJ results are disappointing, also Russian surplus did not get any better with "Mexican style".
 
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