7.63 x25 mauser

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scott1911

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Is 7.63 x25 (30 Mauser) still commercially available? Any known sources? It's for a Mauser broomhandle, so trying to stay away 7,62 tokarev. I understand it will fit and work, but have it is too hot for the Mauser.
 
"id stay away from 7.62x25 completely even downloaded"

Why??? If you do the research, you will find that outside of modern S&B and old Czech M48 Tokarev ammo, European 7.63 and just about all 7.62 Tokarev ammo is loaded to the same pressures and velocities. And the rounds are dimensionally the same.
Check this out:
http://askmisterscience.com/1896mauserbackup/ammo.htm
 
jonnyc said:
"id stay away from 7.62x25 completely even downloaded"

Why??? If you do the research, you will find that outside of modern S&B and old Czech M48 Tokarev ammo, European 7.63 and just about all 7.62 Tokarev ammo is loaded to the same pressures and velocities. And the rounds are dimensionally the same.
Check this out:
http://askmisterscience.com/1896mauserbackup/ammo.htm
Click to expand...

IMO the Czech 7.62 x 25 stuff we got here; oh about 4 - 6 years ago...subgun ammo. You want to cheap out and run this stuff through a Broomhandle?
"Just about all" is a bad term when you are looking at fodder for a turn of the century pistol.
I've had a pistol grenade on me...it's a "Not to be repeated if I can help it" experience.
OP; if you opt for using FSU ammo in your Broomhandle...please reload it, don't feed it that from the FSU armament plant fodder.
 
jonnyc said:
"id stay away from 7.62x25 completely even downloaded"

Why??? If you do the research, you will find that outside of modern S&B and old Czech M48 Tokarev ammo, European 7.63 and just about all 7.62 Tokarev ammo is loaded to the same pressures and velocities. And the rounds are dimensionally the same.
Check this out:
http://askmisterscience.com/1896mauserbackup/ammo.htm
Click to expand...

one the 7.62x25 shoulder is in a different place case length is different and just pulling a bullet dumping the powder and removing 3gr as said above is not a good idea because its a unknown powder. these a company that makes ammo now might as well use proper ammo in these antiques(not antique classed be they are still antiques)
 
"one the 7.62x25 shoulder is in a different place case length is different"

Not true at all, internet myth. Any difference you find dimensionally between a given 7.63 and given 7.62 is the same difference you would find between 5 different manufacturers of the same cartridge. The 7.62 Tokarev round was not a new cartridge developed by the Soviets based off the 7.63 Mauser..........it was simply the Soviets duplicating the 7.63 for their own use.

And Tokguy, there is no such animal as Tokarev "subgun ammo". All Communist production of 7.62x25 Tokarev ammunition was meant for use in both pistols and SMGs. I challenge you to find a reference anywhere in Soviet or East Bloc literature that mentions any Tokarev production meant for sub machine-gun use only. It doesn't exist. The Czechs produced lots of 7.62x25 from 1947 to 1958 (and now commercial Winchester and S&B), but only a small amount in 1952-53 was their M48 variety which was loaded a bit warmer than previous production, but was also meant for pistols and SMGs.
Now, I'm not telling C96 and Bolo owners to go out and shoot anything they want, but it is bothersome that so much internet mythology gets spread around so readily. And the simple fact is that lots of the Mauser pistols out there came out of China and are in very poor condition. Any flavor of factory ammo could be detrimental to their health.
 
jonnyc said:
"one the 7.62x25 shoulder is in a different place case length is different"

Not true at all, internet myth. Any difference you find dimensionally between a given 7.63 and given 7.62 is the same difference you would find between 5 different manufacturers of the same cartridge. The 7.62 Tokarev round was not a new cartridge developed by the Soviets based off the 7.63 Mauser..........it was simply the Soviets duplicating the 7.63 for their own use.

And Tokguy, there is no such animal as Tokarev "subgun ammo". All Communist production of 7.62x25 Tokarev ammunition was meant for use in both pistols and SMGs. I challenge you to find a reference anywhere in Soviet or East Bloc literature that mentions any Tokarev production meant for sub machine-gun use only. It doesn't exist. The Czechs produced lots of 7.62x25 from 1947 to 1958 (and now commercial Winchester and S&B), but only a small amount in 1952-53 was their M48 variety which was loaded a bit warmer than previous production, but was also meant for pistols and SMGs.
Now, I'm not telling C96 and Bolo owners to go out and shoot anything they want, but it is bothersome that so much internet mythology gets spread around so readily. And the simple fact is that lots of the Mauser pistols out there came out of China and are in very poor condition. Any flavor of factory ammo could be detrimental to their health.
Click to expand...

True, I do not have a FSU referance on it. That's where the IMO comes into play. The Wehrmacht had different ammunition in 9mm for pistols and subguns, the british forces did too IIRC . The 7.62 that I've handled is hot stuff; it makes off the shelf 9mm Luger look pretty tame.
Perhaps the TT33's were built to digest it, but it's meant to run subguns.
I'm politely suggesting that the OP not run it through a valuable antique pistol. I'm pretty sure if a German soldier in WW2 requested ammunition for it he wouldn't get some given to him that was designed to run an MP40. More likely would leave with the more sedate Luger fodder.
I've had 3 bbl bushings crack running that stuff. Norinco replacements ( keeping it real here ) til the last one which was an FSU unit from Tradex. And I just quit running it through the pistol, it just beat it up too much.
Please; OP, at the very least knock the stuff apart and insert a safe load of known powder.
And I've always wondered, is it on 8 rd strippers for convenience...or was there a drum loading tool that it works in conjunction with?
 
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tokguy said:
True, I do not have a FSU referance on it. That's where the IMO comes into play. The Wehrmacht had different ammunition in 9mm for pistols and subguns, the british forces did too IIRC . The 7.62 that I've handled is hot stuff; it makes off the shelf 9mm Luger look pretty tame.
Perhaps the TT33's were built to digest it, but it's meant to run subguns.
I'm politely suggesting that the OP not run it through a valuable antique pistol. I'm pretty sure if a German soldier in WW2 requested ammunition for it he wouldn't get some given to him that was designed to run an MP40. More likely would leave with the more sedate Luger fodder.
I've had 3 bbl bushings crack running that stuff. Norinco replacements ( keeping it real here ) til the last one which was an FSU unit from Tradex. And I just quit running it through the pistol, it just beat it up too much.
Please; OP, at the very least knock the stuff apart and insert a safe load of known powder.
And I've always wondered, is it on 8 rd strippers for convenience...or was there a drum loading tool that it works in conjunction with?
Click to expand...

The CZ 26s had a charger guide built into them so you could strip it off into the 32rd magazine (4 chargers would fill one magazine).
 
Actually just read that "Mauser increased the velocity to 1410 for His autoloading pistol of 1896"
That's from ' The Kriegerhoff Luger" by Jim Dickson.
He goes into (obviously) depth about the Luger and how it requires a totally different loading for proper operation.
I'm not sure if the fps value helps or not; my point being, because a round will work in the chamber...doesn't mean it is meant for that pistols needs. A Broomhandle is on my bucket list, if I can get one...I'll be doing lots of research before I fire it. And it won't likely be ammunition designed to run a PPSH that I choose.
Just saying...stay safe.
 
Not true at all, internet myth. Any difference you find dimensionally between a given 7.63 and given 7.62 is the same difference you would find between 5 different manufacturers of the same cartridge. The 7.62 Tokarev round was not a new cartridge developed by the Soviets based off the 7.63 Mauser..........it was simply the Soviets duplicating the 7.63 for their own use.

I concur, see "Soviet TT Pistols and Cartridges" Datig which has a good chapter on the ctg. About the only way to distinguish a brass case Tokarev ctg from a Mauser is by the HS.
 
Which is the not true?
About the different ammunition for German / English pistols vs subguns?
I'm not a Broomhandle expert, just lust after one.
But I do have a Luger, and I've read up on them somewhat. In that reading I recall reading of how "British Best Quality gun maker Giles Whittome" stacked springs in order to make a Luger function with "Hot 'For Sub machine-gun use only' British Sterling SMG ammo at over 1400 fps"
The Germans couldn't run their MP 38/40 ammo at 1400 fps through it either.
Stating unequivocally that there was not separate loadings of the same cartridge, for different arms is pretty bold.
But qualifying it again; this is Luger stuff, I am not a studied C96 fellow. Or (despite my username) Soviet arms either
It's very likely a fact that the USSR just ran it anyhow, lots of warm bodies in Russia. But the English and the Germans felt that seperate rds were a good plan.
If someone here had run the FSU ammunition thru their Broomhandle, speak up. I'm a geek that way, different weapons and their functionality are of great interest to me. The 7.63 is meant to run out of a vertical magazine, that means you can run hotter rounds as stripping the next round off is easily accomplished.
Wondering if the Red 9's had any problems switching from the 7.63 to the Parabellum loading?
 
For the purposes of this conversation, you really can't mix 9x19 and 7.62x25 production. There is definitely SMG-only 9mmP, but absolutely none in 7.62x25.
FWIW, my Bolo is in excellent condition with all new springs. Before Prvi 7.63 became widely available I used Chinese 7.62 in it on a number of occasions. Now that I have lots of the 7.63 I shoot that exclusively, but I can't notice any significant difference between the two manufactures.
 
Cool!
That, sir is what I was looking for. Someone willing to say diffenetively that they have done it.
I'm wary of the "It fits, try it" logic. I've a Steyr - hahn that will physically chamber a few different calibers...but I'm not going to try it because I'm out of proper ammo.
That little 50 year window in time had lots of ad-hoc things like this. 45 ACP through a revolver. ..sure. With another 50 years on that, no one does it any more. Long term, it was hard on guns.
Hate to see a precious Broomhandle grenaded on a foolhardy move.
 
Personally I think it is stupid to shoot a Broomhandle with 7.62x25 surplus. Just looking at the reloading data, the max the publishers are willing to put down for 7.63 Mauser is 1100 to 1300 fps vs. 1200 to 1600 fps for the 7.62x25. That is roughly 20-30% stronger ammo than what is recommended for 7.63 Mauser. There has to be a reason that the published amounts are so different, and likely it is that the actions that are likely to use the cartilage are stronger for 7.62x25 than 7.63 Mauser. And unlike internet speculation that is published data, so the company that published it is willing to stand by the information.

Sure you have shot 7.62x25 surplus through it but maybe that Chinese stuff is more at the 1200 fps range (which is safe for the 7.63 Mauser). The Czech surplus ammo is commonly agreed to be stronger so likely it is more towards the 1600 fps range, people are constantly damaging TT-33s with this ammo, and I would argue that it is a stronger design than the C96.
 
"people are constantly damaging TT-33s with this ammo"

Can you please provide some links to this info? I have seen a number of first-hand reports of damage to CZ52s, but never anything for a TT.
 
I had stated several posts back that I'm on on bbl bushing #3 on mine... but it is a Norc.
And Norc's are of lesser quality. I just didn't like the sound ( and the feel is more likely) of it cycling 7.62 x 25.
Easier and safer to just run 9mm Luger through it.
That's why I'm ' gobsmacked that you can just run 7.62 through a Broomhandle.
But riding along on this thread; listening & perhaps adding to should I have something of relevance.
 
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