7mm SAW Cartridge

S

Syxx15

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SW Ontario
Hey Guys,

I was just browsing on the Insite Arms webpage and saw that they offer 7mm SAW brass. I was hoping someone can provide more info on this calibre. I know the basic specs of it and I came across some information on the WTO (West Texas Ordnance Inc).

My question is, is anyone on here shooting this calibre? How do you like it and how does it preform for you?

Where did you get reloading dies and reamers etc? What gunsmith is chambering for this? I know the WTO sales reloading dies for it and they are Hornady made but on their webpage when you add it to cart they not ship to Canada:(

Thanks and any help would be very appreciated.
 
Hey Syxx15, if Insite is selling the brass, they will know all about it, and you could not find a better gunsmith anywhere!
Phone those guys and I am sure they will be able to answer all your questions.
(I have used Insite a lot over the years, and everything they have done for me has been world class excellent. This season, I am shooting 284 Win and 6BRA barrels from them this, and are unbelievably accurate.).
 
You are welcome Syxx. If you are looking for a 7mm cartridge though, might be worth looking at the 284 Win? I know 3 guys, myself included, running 284s from Insite right now, and they are hammers. Plus factory Norma and easily formed Lapua brass, plus the new Berger 184gr F Open bullet is made specifically for the 284 Win and F Class. Lots of good reloading die choices available too. Easy peasey!
Guys are running Insite stuff in F Class Championships etc., so not sure that SAW would really offer that much more performance.
Curious to hear, and keep us updated, on what you end up doing, cheers!
 
On the WTO webpage, the cartridge was design for the PRS and that you could shoot the might range 7mm bullets ie, 162gr ELD and 168 VLD. It was also designed to shoot from a mag.

I gave Insite a call today, got no answer but left a message. So hopefully they will call back. I got a 284 in the works now and should be getting it back next week. I was planning on using that for long range and use the 7mm Saw for short range. Will keep you updated for sure. Thanks again.
 
OP you can also do a 7SAUM on a short action. Brass is available from Bertram. I'm going to have Insite do me up a 26" carbon barrelled one on a R700 (with notched feed ramp) of mine as a crossover long range hunting/ELR rig. Going to try and get around 2900 with 180s. Makes for a pretty damn capable long range rig.

If you're going for a PRS setup though I'd suggest sticking with something in 6mm, that's the way to go for PRS/NRL matches. You don't need the extra recoil in positional shooting.
 
I am in the process of building one of these for a PRS gun. I bought brass from insite, and I will find out this weekend, but I believe that I found a local gunsmith with the same reamer, different name. Bob Galloway calls his the 7 gunworx, the measurements appear to work, so we will see. If it doesn’t then Insite or EM will get the nod to chamber this for me. I may also rechamber my 7-08 hunting rig if I like it. The idea of a slightly improved shoulder and the SRP should make a wicked PRS cartridge that bucks wind and has a bore that lasts slightly longer. I have 162gr eld-m and 160 tmk’s to try for a mag fed package with a ESS mdt stock with ARCA rails. I should know more in a week or two
 
I’m very curious about how you will like it for PRS style shooting. I currently shoot a 308 and I find the idea of the high BC, better wind resistance and decent barrel life appealing. The 7mms seem like the best all around balance. Also having something that is easier to see impacts with than the smaller calibers is a bonus.
 
The problem with the 7SAW or 7-08 is that you're pretty limited to only running the 160 class 7mm bullets, which is not where that caliber excels. When put side by side with a 6.5 CM or 6.5x47 shooting 140's (similar BC's and better speeds), you get more performance with less recoil and slightly reduced barrel life. When put up against a 6 CM or 6x47 shooting a 110 or 115 fast, you're sacrificing barrel life and a little hit in BC, but you'll get a lot more speed and noticeably better recoil.

The only reason to switch to a 7SAW or 7-08 for match shooting would be to get away from the 308, but if you're going to put yourself in open, why not shoot something that will actually be competitive?
 
I hear where you are coming from, but this is the shooter being competitive, not the cartridge. Outside of the 400-500m range all cartridges are being dialled, so who cares? Besides, I hate being the same as everyone else, I will never shoot a Creedmoor cartridge. No appeal to me whatsoever.
 
Not true.

For PRS/NRL, a 7mm cartridge will handicap the shooter to some degree. Recoil on compromised positions will make follow up shots longer. The shooter will also have to mitigate and compromise spotting shots down range, and give up any ability to watch trace.

There are really no pro's to running a 7mm in PRS/NRL, only cons. If picking for that discipline, you would be much better served with 6 or 6.5mm.
 
kthomas said:
Not true.

For PRS/NRL, a 7mm cartridge will handicap the shooter to some degree. Recoil on compromised positions will make follow up shots longer. The shooter will also have to mitigate and compromise spotting shots down range, and give up any ability to watch trace.

There are really no pro's to running a 7mm in PRS/NRL, only cons. If picking for that discipline, you would be much better served with 6 or 6.5mm.
Click to expand...

With now day competition rig weighting 18lbs + and modern efficient muzzle break recoil is not an issue.

Their is nice recoil calculator online to get an idea. We speak here of rougly 1 lb/ft of recoil energy difference.

Second as part of fundamental recoil management is part of any accomplished marksman skill set. That small of a difference should not matter.

Lastly many to most stage in NRL or PRS is now 2 min which is way enough to adapt.

Tons of choice of caliber for match so why not the 7mm saw.
 
I'm going to preface this by saying that a skilled shooter can perform well irrespective of caliber. I've seen talented shooters finish in the top 10 of national PRS/NRL matches shooting a .308. As in most things in life, it's the Indian not the arrow.

That being said, for PRS/NRL shooting, caliber suitability goes like this: 6mm>6.5mm>7mm>.308>.223. It's not really much of a discussion. The only downside to that list is that the better the caliber performs, the worse the barrel life is. That's also not as big a deal as most people make it out to be. Those who make the most noise about barrel life generally won't shoot out a 6mm in a year anyways. I have a 6 Creed that's just past 2000 rds and it still shoots plenty tight enough to win a match.

As Kudu pointed out, the 7SAW will outperform the .308 but not the 6.5 Creedmoor. It comes down to case capacity. A 7SAUM would be the ticket if you were looking to really buck the wind, that or a 6.5 PRC or 6.5-284. You do lose out on magazine capacity though.

Even with perfect recoil management, a lighter recoiling caliber makes a huge difference both in how much your sight picture gets disturbed and your ability to spot your own trace. 20lbs guns notwithstanding, there's a huge difference between spotting trace for a Dasher pushing a 105 around 2900 and a 6 Creed pushing a 110/115 at 3000+. I know this because I have directly compared them. Your "mastery" of recoil management isn't going to let you spot your trace shooting a 6.5mm much less a 7mm from any position other than prone (and then even rarely).

As far as stages in PRS/NRL matches being 2 minutes now, I don't know where that came from but in the matches I've been to this year, there are still lots of 90s stages, although I'm not too sure how pertinent that is. A bit more time on a stage gives you more time to recover from recoil and get your follow-up shot off but doesn't make a difference in terms of what feedback you got from your 1st shot.

In any case, there's a reason that the current orthodoxy is to shoot a 6mm of some variety. If the reduced barrel life is really a non-starter for you, then shoot a 6.5mm, it doesn't have to be your hated 6.5 Creed, the .260 and 6.5x47L are pretty damn similar. That's if you're really looking to choose the optimum caliber for PRS/NRL matches.

If you're dead set on building a 7SAW to use as a comp gun, have at it and I'd honestly be curious to hear what kind of performance you get out of it as it seems like a pretty cool cartridge and there isn't yet much info out there.
 
kevin9934 said:
With now day competition rig weighting 18lbs + and modern efficient muzzle break recoil is not an issue.

Their is nice recoil calculator online to get an idea. We speak here of rougly 1 lb/ft of recoil energy difference.

Second as part of fundamental recoil management is part of any accomplished marksman skill set. That small of a difference should not matter.

Lastly many to most stage in NRL or PRS is now 2 min which is way enough to adapt.

Tons of choice of caliber for match so why not the 7mm saw.
Click to expand...

Plenty of matches still have stages with 90 second limits.

Shooting off of a wobbly barricade, your ability to spot shots, and get the rifle back on target while certainly be impeded more with a 7mm than a 6mm cartridge. That's a fact. Being smooth, in control, and keeping the rifle on target as much as possible is what you need to do to shoot better scores and be competitive.

Since the majority of stages are generally 600 yards and in, any ballistic advantage that a 7mm will give (if it even has any - depends on the cartridge and bullet selection), is moot. 7mm doesn't provide ANY advantages over a 6mm or 6.5mm for PRS/NRL matches.

Can you manage with a 7mm? Certainly. Is it the best choice? I wouldn't say so. There's a reason why there is a big trend to 6mm. You can shoot decently with a 7mm, but you can probably shoot even better (even if marginally so) with a 6mm.
 
I really appreciate all the insight, I am a long time shooter but new to PRs matches and the points are well received. I probably think too much about prone shooting and understand the recoil management part for sure. I will forge ahead with the SAW and provide updates. All my parts are here so off to the smith this week. I’ll be paying close attention at the Canadian sharpshooter match next weekend. Shooting the tactical division, and only my second ever PRs match. Lots to learn!
 
It’s done, in the end I went a little extra and blew the shoulder out to a cartridge Bob Galloway calls the 7 Gunworx. Defiance action, MDT ESS with all the ARCA rails I could fit, Calvin elite 2 stage trigger, and it will wear a 5-25x56 ATACR F1. Just bought a barrel for fireforming, hope to put the first rounds through it in the next two months.
 
My build got delivered last week. I will be running a Curtis Customs Vector action with KS Arms Heavy Varmint 1:8.5 barrel @ 28" and profiled muzzle break using long throat, .150″ freebore reamer. I am also putting it in a MDT ESS chassis and using a Vortex Razor Gen 2 scope. All the work was done by EM Precision. I hope to get it out to the range this weekend to do some load testing or next week during the Christmas holidays.

The bullets that I will be testing in due time will be Hornady 162gr ELD-M, Berger 168gr VLD and Berger 184gr F-Class open. I haven't decided if I want to try Sierra bullets yet. Powder I will be testing with is Varget and H4350. I will post pictures of my results and provide velocity speeds.

Stay tune:dancingbanana:
 
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I saw a 224 Valkyrie cartridge for the first time yesterday and didn’t know it was such a tiny case but with those 88 Eldms it could be a decent option for those who wanna save some money
 
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