80% 1911 frames

He's not asking about frame kits or unfinished guns. He's referring to 80% complete frames similar to those found on US websites.

In the states, under the 2nd amendment, you can buy these 80% complete receivers without paperwork as they are not finished and so technically not a firearm yet, then finish them yourself with some machining skills and equipment. It is legal to finish these yourself and build a gun as long as you don't try to sell it or give it to someone else and thus become a 'manufacturer' and not a builder for personal use.
The Canadian laws do provide for this as the Usa constitution does. I'm not sure of the legality of these in Canada. There has been much debate on this topic in other forums. While it might possibly be legal to own the unfinished receivers since they are essentially non functioning "paperweights" I would imagine that actually turning them into a functioning firearm that's restricted in this country could land you in a lot of trouble with the authorities.

Dlask was offering 80% 1911's as well as 80% AR15's for a while but they have removed them from their site. Probably due to legal concerns but you would have to ask them about that.
 
In the US, the 2nd Amendment is irrelevant to the 80% receiver thing.
If it is sufficiently unfinished, it is not a firearm. Period. ATF interpretation of what is sufficiently unfinished does change, there is no hard and fast rule about what 80% means. For example, the interpretation of 80% as applied to AR type lowers has changed.
There is no Cdn. equivalent of 80%. At some point in the production cycle, the thing is going to be deemed a receiver, a firearm.
If the thing is for a restricted firearm, there are those who say that it must be registered when it is finished to the point that it would support firing a round. If it is a restricted, it might be a good idea to consult with the RCMP sooner, rather than later.
In Canada, and in the US, there is no prohibition against selling a homemade firearm. It is personal property, and it can disposed of subject to the laws covering the transfer of firearms.
If the thing is being made with the intent to sell, then that is manufacturing.
 
Switch540 said:
He's not asking about frame kits or unfinished guns. He's referring to 80% complete frames similar to those found on US websites.

In the states, under the 2nd amendment, you can buy these 80% complete receivers without paperwork as they are not finished and so technically not a firearm yet, then finish them yourself with some machining skills and equipment. It is legal to finish these yourself and build a gun as long as you don't try to sell it or give it to someone else and thus become a 'manufacturer' and not a builder for personal use.
The Canadian laws do provide for this as the Usa constitution does. I'm not sure of the legality of these in Canada. There has been much debate on this topic in other forums. While it might possibly be legal to own the unfinished receivers since they are essentially non functioning "paperweights" I would imagine that actually turning them into a functioning firearm that's restricted in this country could land you in a lot of trouble with the authorities.

Dlask was offering 80% 1911's as well as 80% AR15's for a while but they have removed them from their site. Probably due to legal concerns but you would have to ask them about that.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification.
 
Don't count on Dlask having 1911 80% frames again. I placed an order with them last year and while I was on the phone I inquired if they would offer them again. The lady said: "No..."they" told us we can't sell them anymore, only the 60%".

Strange, as they still offer 80% AR15 lowers. I guess they got a call from someone in an office somewhere with too much time on their hands.
 
Are 60% 1911 frames going to be made available again? I wanted to purchase one the other day but they are no longer listed on Dlask's website.
 
I should have bought 10 of them back in the day when they were still around. all good things come to an end

Joe told me about 1 out of 5 frames ever get finished. the rest get butchered or just give up.....who's got a butchered frame for sale?

last time I talked to Joe he said he's waiting on some forgings and will make another batch of AR 80% recievers as well as 10/22 80% receivers.....I think I'm gonna grab quite a few this time
 
just google or youtube ar 80%. i'm not sure about the 1911 frames, but the ar's usually can be completed with a jig and drill press...some kits i''ve seen also need to be tapped for the buffer tube. might not be as slick as if it was completed with a milling machine but it gets the job done. i think its more of a US thing where up too a certain level of completion and its still not classified as a firearm (so no ffl dealer, serial number, can never sell it, so forth and so on). however up here the laws seem to be a little more grey (go figure)...i think (and this is just from what i've read here) that there are no official rules or laws up here as far as uncompleted frames or receivers are concerned. if/when a receiver gets completed there must be a serial number on it and must be registered *if restricted* and possibly even taken in to get verified. i'm not sure about the resale of a completed frame up in canada if its been completed by a non-licensed party.
 
You need to call Joe about those questions. Heads up though......we are concentrating on parts and our new online store......that's where the money is. We don't want to be "shoe cobblers" anymore. Its a pain in the butt and takes up too much time. Better that we concentrate on manufacturing quality products.
 
Bobby and The Devil said:
So what is it about the 60% and 80% frames that keep them from being 100%?

Is it still possible to put barrels, slides, bushings, etc on them even if the intent isn't to make them fully working firearms?
Click to expand...

The ATF had made a ruling as to what constitutes an "unfinished" 1911 anyways. It can have everything finished except for:

Slide rails or rail indexing marks
The barrel seat
More than two of the following holes holes drilled
Slide stop pivot
Sear pivot
Disconnector
Hammer pin.

Different companies choose to do different configurations on their 80% frames. Just recently, they've really taken off. You can't find 80% 1911 frames ANYWHERE now. A company in the states did a few runs of the "rudius" which is a configuration I'm not too keen on. It's an 80% frame, which uses a polymer lower for the grip portion and trigger guard of the frame, and the steel "upper" portion of the 1911 is machined by them up to the 80% point. They sell jigs and fixtures to allow you to finish it fairly easy. They sold out fast. They also sold out of their 80% ar lowers, and run a program at their shop in California that allows "Build Parties" where you go in, pay for your AR receiver, and they have a CNC machine set up, with all the programming ready to go. You simply put your receiver in the vice, push the go buttom, and an hour later you have a finished AR lower, then you configure your AR on the spot and walk out with a new AR sans paperwork and background checks. Sarco has also sold many many ùnfinished` 1911 frames, but their quality varies and they commonly use reject frames that have been scuffed or dicked up, and the quality from what I understand from friends in the states is hit or miss, with a hit still being on the ####ty side. It`s possible to build a 1911 in Canada and then have it registered, but there is a good amount of work that goes into it, fitting the slide to rails, properly laying out and indexing the holes, and making everything kosher. Plus, the prices on the 80%ers tends to be sky high compared to buying a complete 1911 frame with everything already done and slapping your favourite parts on it. Doing the math, it makes much more sense to buy a norc 1911 frame if you can from Armco and building it how you want. Saves you a bunch of cash on tooling and parts and trinkets you would need, or would be beneficial to build your own 1911 to somewhat quality standards (Slide rail fitting bars, files, stones, etc etc etc etc).

The real `benefit` that most people see in the whole unfinished receiver game is not having the paperwork with it. I`m sure former 80% guns will start turning up at crime scenes in the states soon. However in Canada, it won`t work the same because of the registry.
 
I have two of joes 60% frames. I was going make them into book ends. They are basically dimensionally correct solid pieces of steel, they need complete maching. If anyone wants mine PM me.
 
grandmasterP said:
who's got a butchered frame for sale?
Click to expand...

I have one but not for sale. It came pre-butchered by dlask for a project as I only wanted the 1911 grip area.
Was going to make a custom gear shifter handle but never got around to it.
Had to called and ask for it, or maybe I emailed them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom