8X50R Austro-Hungarian - Help?

Nabs

Nabs

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Good evening all,

I have in my posession a special beauty: An untouched, all matching, unit marked 1915 Dated WWI bringback Austrian M95 Mannlicher, still in the original 8X50R. Marked to the No.27 Landwehrinfanterieregimenter Laibach, which would eventually become a famous Alpine troop regiment in WWI. I am determined to shoot this firearm, to honour it's history and those that fell in that time. I took it to a competant gunsmith and he says there is nothing that should keep it from shooting, everything is solid.

Here's what I have:

- I acquired the dies from Buffalo Arms - $260 for a set of CH4D custom dies, got the last one they had
- Shell holder and case length gauge for 8X56 (might need to modify the gauge length though)
- Brass - I have 40 pieces of 8X56R brass... I'd like a bunch more... AND IF YOU HAVE 8X50R BRASS PLEASE CONTACT ME! (Tried to buy some from USA, was told it was prohibited to ship to Canada...no comment)

Here's what I need:

- More Brass - Again, if you have some already pre-made I would be happy to buy it from you, please PM me
- Way to trim the brass I have and/or whatever I need to trim it down
- Proper mold for this caliber, for heavy weight bullets, or source for the proper size bullets (FMJ or RN) If you have some, PM me please
- LOAD DATA - I Need a good handful of loads for this round... pretty scarce. Anything you have would be great!

Thank you a lot, and for some encouragement, how about a picture of the beautiful Frauline? ;)

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I have some Italian surplus 8x50R. It's not for sale and berdan primed but I can take any measurements for you.
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Lee will make a custom trim gauge for you, probably the easiest option, or if you have a friend with a lathe they can make you one to spec, my brother made one up for me for 44 Webley.

Remember though, you do not have to have a gauge to quick trim, you can trim the cases with something slightly shorter but the right ID and measure as you go.

PPU makes bullets for the 8x56R, they are the same size I do believe and TradeEx has them, you can also get a Lee Mold for that size, specifically designed for 8x56R.

To make brass you can make 8x56R from 7.62x54R, you should be able to do the same for 8x50R.

I hope this helps.
 
It’s a proper 8mm in .323 not the .330 that 8x56 is. I asked about converting brass on milsurps.com a few years back - thread there is pretty informative on the process from 7.62x54R.
 
sledge said:
It’s a proper 8mm in .323 not the .330 that 8x56 is. I asked about converting brass on milsurps.com a few years back - thread there is pretty informative on the process from 7.62x54R.
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The 8mm has been .318, .323 and .329/.330.

The 8x50R guns were converted to take 8x56R, which has a .329/.330 bullet, probably not a bad idea to slug the bore of "8mm" guns as there are different ones and nothing is standard in early guns.
 
Woodleigh makes a 250 gr 8mm (323") bullet. According to the Textbook of Small Arms 1909 the load was 42.44 gr Nitrocellulous powder with a 244 gr 323" bullet (bore was 315" + 4 grooves 008" deep). Velocity was 2034 fps from the rifle and 1900 from the carbine.

My gut says IMR 4064 would work.

I think Lee will custom make a gauge. Or likely a 325 WSM or 32 Special one could be modified.

Good luck. She's a beaut!
 
MiG25 said:
Woodleigh makes a 250 gr 8mm (323") bullet. According to the Textbook of Small Arms 1909 the load was 42.44 gr Nitrocellulous powder with a 244 gr 323" bullet (bore was 315" + 4 grooves 008" deep). Velocity was 2034 fps from the rifle and 1900 from the carbine.

My gut says IMR 4064 would work.

I think Lee will custom make a gauge. Or likely a 325 WSM or 32 Special one could be modified.

Good luck. She's a beaut!
Click to expand...

The books list .823 bullets for the 8x56R as well but the books are wrong, a .823 bullet will not work very well at all for accuracy in an 8x56 Steyr and I am pretty sure all the steyr straight pull 8mm guns were .329.

Here is a discussion on this round. It looks like .323 flat open base bullets may work as they will bump out some to catch in the rifling.

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?168467-8x50R-specs
 
sail32 said:
Here is a list of metric cartridge deminsions including bullets, and the 8x50R had a misplaced decimal.

Scroll down to 8x50R

http://www.cartridge-corner.com/metric.htm
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Slug the bore though.

They took these rifles and reamed them out to 8x56R and 8x56R has a .329 bore.

A thread I linked to has data that shows that it may work with both a .323 and a .329 bullet.

Another thing to check is the sizing ball on the sizing dies, that would let you know what the die is setup for.

Gotta love old guns though, I was told one of mine was .442, no if ands or buts, well, it slugged out at .429 and takes lead .430 perfectly.
 
Hey Fox, and others, thanks for the reply. Firstly, this rifle is in original 8X50R. NOT 8X56. It takes the .323 bullet, around a 240 grain, either long round nose or spitzer, flat based in both cases. Any source for brass? By the way, I have 8X56R brass. Can I simply trim 6mm off the neck, anneal it, and then resize in my FLR 8X50R die?

As for trimming, is there a simple manual hand trimmer that would work? A friend had one years back... Lyman I think?
 
Nabs said:
Hey Fox, and others, thanks for the reply. Firstly, this rifle is in original 8X50R. NOT 8X56. It takes the .323 bullet, around a 240 grain, either long round nose or spitzer, flat based in both cases. Any source for brass? By the way, I have 8X56R brass. Can I simply trim 6mm off the neck, anneal it, and then resize in my FLR 8X50R die?

As for trimming, is there a simple manual hand trimmer that would work? A friend had one years back... Lyman I think?
Click to expand...

I know it is the original 8x50R, but surprised that is takes a .323 bullet as these guns were the same guns being bored out and turned into the 8x56R then loaded with a .329 bullet. Maybe it has to do with the design of the rifling, as I posted in the link above.

8x56R brass is expensive to find, look up making 8x56R brass from 7.62x54R, you should be able to make 8x50R exactly the same way and not have it too short as the 50 is a shorter round.
If you have 8x56R brass available then sell it and buy 7.62x54R and fire form that and pocket some dough.

Are you able to slug the bore to see what bullet to use? If it will take flat base .323 bullets your life will be a lot easier shooting it.

Lee will make custom trim dies or you can get one for an 8x56R and have someone turn it down in length for you to work.
 
Hello everyone

Firstly I would like to say that the original bullets that were used were a flat face round nose 244 gen. 323 diameter bullet. When the rifles were modified to 8x56 the bores usually were a bit worn. They went to a .330 diameter bullet with a BOAT TAIL. Technically either style of bullet will work for 8x50R, but the best is a heavy, long, Spitzer bullet around 196 grains, which was the original service round in WWI. That bullet had a flat base as only 20% or less of the bullet body would contact the rifling as opposed to 80% in the round nose.
 
Nabs said:
Hello everyone

Firstly I would like to say that the original bullets that were used were a flat face round nose 244 gen. 323 diameter bullet. When the rifles were modified to 8x56 the bores usually were a bit worn. They went to a .330 diameter bullet with a BOAT TAIL. Technically either style of bullet will work for 8x50R, but the best is a heavy, long, Spitzer bullet around 196 grains, which was the original service round in WWI. That bullet had a flat base as only 20% or less of the bullet body would contact the rifling as opposed to 80% in the round nose.
Click to expand...

Very good to know, I wonder is a flat base would work well in an 8x56 then as well, hmm.

You have a lot more options then for bullets, have you looked into forming brass?
 
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