8X56R Mannlicher/Hungarian Loads?

Drachenblut

Drachenblut

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Hello!

*NOTE* - As this thread may be of potentially great use to future shooters, I would ask that it be reviewed as a possible "sticky". Thanks! :cool:

I have begun to collect Austrian WWI/WWII Era Mannlicher rifles and carbines, and I am searching for tried, true, safe and accurate loads. That has proven difficult so, in order to help others and myself to load for this interesting round, I am looking to collect several loads here. I aim to replicate, as close as possible, the military loading of the era with modern supplies.

I will be using 205 Grain .329/330 diameter, jacketed projectiles. Other bullet weights are welcome for loads.

Upon receiving my die set from Lee Precision, I noticed many of the powders I like to use are not even listed!

I welcome any loads, they must be actual loads that are from a manual (ref. made please), your own loads that you have tried and shot in the M95 series Mannlichers, or loads you know of and can vouch are of good quality.

Loads should include: Over-All Length (of round, rim to bullet tip), powder type, make, quantity in grains and min/max if you have that, brass make, primer make, bullet weight, type and make. In this case, bullet diameter as well is welcome, especially with cast lead projectile loads!

Initially, lets start out with any loads for 205 grain, or more, for Winchester 760, VARGET, and H4350/IMR4350 powders!

Sources and links to good loads are welcome!

Thanks and lets see those loads!

--- Drachenblut ---
 
Generally you can use 8X57 loads in the 8X56 in a M95 action. The action is strong (has been rechambered to 8X57) and the 8X56 has slightly greater case capacity (~68.0 grs vs. ~62.0 grs), so 8X57 loads produce lower pressure when used in the 8X56 case. The only caution is to apply this formula only with powders in the range of Varget or faster to avoid concerns about downloading the slower powders like H4350.
 
Sounds good. So as an example, as I want to be sure I understand, if I had a load for say 47 grains max of Varget with a 200 grain bullet for 8X57 Mauser, I could load that for sure, safely, in an 8X56R Mannlicher loading with a 205 grain bullet due to the increased case capacity, and ensure I keep my C.O.A.L. near max 3.010 length or so, should work? Does that sound right? Also, in loading for heavier bullet weights, am I right the heavier you go the less charge you use or is that not true? Thanks Andy!
 
Drachenblut said:
Sounds good. So as an example, as I want to be sure I understand, if I had a load for say 47 grains max of Varget with a 200 grain bullet for 8X57 Mauser, I could load that for sure, safely, in an 8X56R Mannlicher loading with a 205 grain bullet due to the increased case capacity, and ensure I keep my C.O.A.L. near max 3.010 length or so, should work? Does that sound right? Also, in loading for heavier bullet weights, am I right the heavier you go the less charge you use or is that not true? Thanks Andy!
Click to expand...

If 47gr was the max I would start at 45gr but that may just be me. The amount of powder used is dependent on what type of powder you use. So if you wanted to use 200gr load data but had a 230gr bullet I would start at 43gr of varget instead of 45 or 47 for a 200gr bullet. Now if you found 230gr load data and wanted to use a 200gr bullet I would use the data as is (based on your example 47gr of varget).

I haven't even shot my m95 yet but I have loaded 10 rounds of my cast 205gr bullets with 10gr of trailboss if I remember correctly. Suppose to be a nice plinking load.

As for coal, use what ever works in your gun. I did the split case method in which you take a sized case and cut two slit's in the case mouth and then put the bullet you plan to use barely into the case. Put that in your gun and slowly close the bolt then remove it and that's your max OAL. I seat it a bit deeper and make 5 rounds (live) and cycle them through the gun (at a range).
 
I have done a little playing with the 8x56 . Right now I am chasing a milsurp duplication . Load The 1938 production milsurp gave me 2385 fps over the chrono . Working towards pushing a privi 208 gr fm just at least at 2300 but with a whole lot smaller groups than the milsurp stuff . I couldn't get enough H 4831 in the case to get the velocity I was looking for . But 53 gr gave me the smallest group at about 1950 fps . Next batch is with h414 , we will see where that goes.
 
dnepr said:
I have done a little playing with the 8x56 . Right now I am chasing a milsurp duplication . Load The 1938 production milsurp gave me 2385 fps over the chrono . Working towards pushing a privi 208 gr fm just at least at 2300 but with a whole lot smaller groups than the milsurp stuff . I couldn't get enough H 4831 in the case to get the velocity I was looking for . But 53 gr gave me the smallest group at about 1950 fps . Next batch is with h414 , we will see where that goes.
Click to expand...

if you remember can you post the results here or start a new thread, once i find some place to shoot on a regular basis i will be loading alot more then 10 rounds..
 
I put a couple hundred cast bullets through my 95/34 carbine. Only 2 powders I tried were 2400 and Trail Boss. I couldn't find my TB targets but if I remember correctly I wasn't impressed with the accuracy. 2400 was a different story. My bullet was the Lee 329 205 gr sized at 330- Lee 329 push through die opened up to 330. Used to seat gas checks then pan lubed. My bore measures 329.
Started with 16 grs and worked up to 18. Cases where blackened and I had some gas blow back at 16. By 18 grs the cases were clean and accuracy was around an inch and a half at 50yds. It also shot to point of aim with sight at lowest setting
While I haven't tried it in this caliber I have also had excellent results with 4198 in almost all the midbore military rifles I've tried it in. A good future project?

These little carbines make excellent plinkers with cast bullets. Low recoil, little muzzle last, no bore wear, long case life and very economical to shoot once you're set up with mould and dies.( both Lee in my case) What more could you ask for?
 
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Thanks for the info guys, and Old Ranger, to you thanks as well and a question. Who makes 2400 and Trail Boss? Are they pistol only or rifle powders? I use Lee Dipper Spoons to load, have any data for those?
 
"The Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions " lists a 205 gr. bullet over 45 grs. of 3031 for a velocity of 2300 fps.
"The Home Guide to Cartridge Conversions" by George Nonte lists a 175 gr. soft point over 44 grs. of 4895 for 2400 fps
"Cartridges of the World" 9th Ed. lists a 198 gr. soft point over 46 gr. of 3031 for 2310 fps and a 206 gr. ball over 45 gr. of 3031 for 2300 fps (supposed to duplicate the military load)
 
link to lee 8 x56 r data
4f471eff-264f-41bc-bc2c-b04062fbaa78.jpg
 
zuke said:
If you have a LEE load manual, you can double check the 8x56r load's to the 8x57. Their the same
Click to expand...

That's correct, verbatim rightdown to the MV to four digits! The only thing they changed is the Min OAL. I have the book, but there's so much left wanting with the loads in the Lee Manual, I can't be bothered even starting.

There is one good thing in the data sheet though - the suggestion that you can make 0.329" jacketed bullets by sizing down 0.338" bullets with the Lee 0.329" lube-sizing die. I've done it with the 0.338" Speer 200 gr Hot-Cor - all you need is good lube and it's done in one pass. Then we get into the big discussion that it's dangerous because the jacket will separate from the core........... These are bonded core bullets, and I've shot over 100 or three different sizes and recovered bullets from the berm - no problem.

2405.jpg
 
Drachenblut said:
Wow! Thanks Andy! What is the price and source on .338 bullets, and source price on the Lee Lube Sizing Die?
Click to expand...

I get all my Lee stuff from Higginsons, and I think I bought the Sierra bullets at the Stittsville Shooting Range. I imagine that Cabelas has that stuff too.
 
8x56mm Hungarian Rimmed Model 95 Reloading Data
Warning! Notes: 19.50-inch barrel. Chronograph figures taken with start screen at approximately 6 feet. All loads used Prvi Partizan brass and Winchester Large Rifle primers. (Handloader Issue #279 - August, 2012)
Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data.
Wt.BulletPowder ManufacturerPowderChargeVelocity (FPS)
208Prvi Partizan FMJIMRIMR-4064472256
Remarks: variation (fps): 34; mild
208Prvi Partizan FMJHodgdonVarget492268
Remarks: variation (fps): 56; mild
C:\DOCUME~1\Owner\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image002.gif
8X56R Reloading Data
Warning! Strong>Notes: Cartridge oal with military bullets is 3.04 inches; cartridge oal with Patriot bullets is 2.85 inches. (Rifle Issue #139 - January, 1992)
Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data.
Wt.BulletPowder ManufacturerPowderChargeVelocity (FPS)
206German Military FMJ/BTIMRIMR-3031452,258
Remarks: Berdan Primer; Rottweil Case .9x2.2 inch groups
206German Military FMJ/BTIMRIMR-3031452,278
Remarks: WLR Primer; Bertram Case .7x2.9 group size
206German Military FMJ/BTIMRIMR-3031472,316
Remarks: Berdan Primer; Rottweil Case .9x1.7 inch group size
206German Military FMJ/BTIMRIMR-3031472,358
Remarks: CCI Large Rifle Primer; Bertram Case 1.0x4.0 inch group size
206German Military FMJ/BTIMRIMR-4895452,202
Remarks: Berdan Primer; Rottweil Case 1.4x2.2 inch groups
206German Military FMJ/BTIMRIMR-4320482,373
Remarks: Berdan Primer; Rottweil Case 1.3x3.0 inch group size
206German Military FMJ/BTIMRIMR-4350532,272
Remarks: Berdan Primer; Rottweil Case 1.5x3.5 inch groups
206German Military FMJ/BTHodgdonH-4831552,158
Remarks: Berdan Primer; Rottweil Case 1.1x2.2 inch groups
206German Military FMJ/BTWinchesterW-760522,358
Remarks: Berdan Primer; Rottweil Case .9x2.6 inch groups
200Patriot SP/RNIMRIMR-303147.52,319
Remarks: Berdan Primer; Rottweil Case .7x1.8 inch groups
200Patriot SP/RNHodgdonH-483156.52,252
Remarks: CCI Large Rifle Primer; Bertram Case .7x.7 inch groups
200Patriot SP/RNHodgdonH-4831572,222
Remarks: Berdan Primer; Rottweil Case .4x.7 inch groups
250Patriot SP/RNIMRIMR-3031452,087
Remarks: Berdan Primer; Rottweil Case .9x4.8 inch groups
250Patriot SP/RNHodgdonH-4831552,085
Remarks: Berdan Primer; Rottweil Case 1.1x4.5 inch groups
250Patriot SP/RNHodgdonH-4831552,143
Remarks: CCI Large Rifle Primer; Bertram Case 1.5x3.5 inch groups
 
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