8x57JR - recipe needed

submoa303

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Hiya all - picked up a drilling, from the early 1900's, Bock drilling and its chambered in 8x57 JR (NOT JRS) have tracked down brass, have some 180 grain bullets, and i have searched HIGH and low but cannot even find a starting point on where to go with this. Anyone have any experience with break action in 8x57JR (.318) in terms of reloading, what powder to use and good starting # of grains??
Thanks for any help!
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Appx 37 years ago I had to sell off my Drilling, chambered for the 16ga over 8x57JR.

It was a beauty, brought back after the WWII occupation of West Germany, by a good friend and mentor. He had done something, which kept him on active duty right up to 1948. He had a document from his commanding officer and the home office to bring the rifle back to Canada with him.

OP, the rifle was very similar to the one in your excellent pics.

He passed away, from Cancer in 1975 and gave me the rifle as a memento of our friendship before he passed. I had been handloading the ammo for it.

Anyway, to make a long story short, brass was really difficult to find and loaded ammunition was even rarer.

I used to neck up 303 British cases and fireform them in the Drilling. This actually worked very well. Only about .005 in difference at the head diameter, which is about similar to most once fired cases, from a Lee Enfield.

Sourcing bullets didn't seem to be a problem back then, CIL made them in nice little boxes of 50, in plastic trays to keep them separated. They made them in 3 different weights and shapes. 150/170/196 grain. They could all be had in either round nose or flat base spitzer type.

I only loaded the 150 grain, .318 diameter, flat base, round nose bullets for that lovely Drilling. It had a rather slow twist rate, about 1-12 and didn't like heavier bullets at the velocities we felt were safe.

Those bullets were on the shelf of Les Viel's Gun Shop in Vernon, back in those days. Now they would have to be special order I suspect.

I had two go to powders at the time, that worked in just about everything I had. IMR4320 and IMR4350

I used the starting loads in the Hornady First manual, printed in 1967.

44.0 grains of IMR4320 over Standard LR primers, under 150 grain round nose bullets.

The next powder of choice was 51.0 grains of IMR4350 over Standard LR primers, under 150 grain round nose bullets.

We tried some 170 grain round nose, to see if they shot any better. They didn't and like most Drillings the felt recoil was markedly greater. So we just loaded it with light bullets.

I liked to use the IMR4350 because it filled the case better. This was a problem with that Drilling as it had a lot of free bore and bullets were seated to the junction of the shoulder/neck.

We calculated velocities by measuring bullet drop at different ranges in those days. Only very well heeled individuals could afford a Chronograph in those days.

The period scope on the rifle was a Koehler 3X and was mounted exactly like the scope in your pics. Windage adjustment was on the rear base. Parallax was brutal at best and you had to hold your head high and at the same position to keep the groups below 4 inches at a hundred yards.

We shot a lot of game with that Drilling, I miss Walt Rogers and Les Viel a lot. Tiny Tim Ryan showed me how to use size and fireform the 303 Brit cases for it, at Les Viel's request.

I still have one Drilling tucked away in my safe. I bring it out occasionally and take it to the range, for nostalgic purposes. It's a 16ga double, over 9.3x74R. Very light and handy but the recoil isn't pleasant. It has the same mounts but a modern scope sits in the rings.
 
8x57JRS Loads

Warning!#Notes:#Not a warning - source: Rifle Issue #18 - November, 1971
Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data.

Wt. Bullet Powder Manufacturer Powder Charge Velocity (FPS) Favorite?

159 Norma RN IMR IMR-4350 52 2,475
Remarks: None
196 H-Mantle SP IMR IMR-3031 43 2,441
Remarks: None
8x57JRS.gif
 
The loads in the tables you list are for .323 diameter bores. As designated with the JRS

The OP is looking for loads for the .318 diameter bores. As designated with the J

This gets really confusing at times. Bores with the "8mm" designation can be anywhere from .316 to .329 diameter.

His rifle is a Drilling. Good rifles and fairly strong, especially the later ones.

Some early drilling type rifles are not so strong.

I was looking at one, just before Christmas, that had loosened up to the point its owner was concerned about its safety.

It's rifle barrel was 9.3x57R.

The receiver face actually had an impression from the cartridge face after firing.

The action was stretched and the hinge pin was no longer tight.

The owner had been shooting off the shelf 9.3x57R out of it for several years.

IMHO, this shows the quality of the action, not so much for the shooter.

The rifle is now a wall hanger. Likely it could have been fixed but it was a family heirloom. Grandfather/Father/Son.

The OP is right to look for information about loading for his rifle.

I never had a bit of trouble with the loads I listed and it's very difficult to find specific information on the net for .318 bore 8x57JR. Lots for cast bullets.

These rifles were designed to shoot jacketed bullets. They're strong enough for low pressure loads in the 40K psi range, with .318 bullets. Recent manufacture Drillings will handle just about any loads available for the 8x57JR, including those you list.

I don't believe using the 323 diameter bullets will blow up or damage the rifles but why push it if you don't have to.
 
Here are my notes gleaned from the internet, from when I still had a Sauer drilling in 8x57IR:




Please take the following with the proverbial "grain of salt" - my 8x57JR combo gun may be very different from your 8x57JR combo gun.

The load mine likes best so far is 49 grains of H4350 behind a 200 grain Woodleigh .318" bullet in RWS cases using CCI LR primers. Velocity is in the high 2200s. Case expansion is nil and extraction could basically be done using gravity alone. One note: my combo's 8x57JR chamber is tight enough in the neck that RWS cases require neck reaming even with .318" bullets, beware. 50 grains went just over 2300 fps but accuracy wasn't as good and the additional few fps aren't going to buy any increase in range or power. Always keep to the light side with these thin barrels...
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I've had good luck with 44gr RL 15 and CCI LR Primers behind 196gr Norma bullets or my dwindling supply of DKT 196gr RN bullets. I have a few 180gr DKT and load them with 45gr RL 15.

These have been pretty good in six different 8X57JR guns. I used the same 44 gr loads in an 8X57JRS drilling with 200gr Nosler PTs.
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All but one "J" bore gun I've owned slugged to .320-.321. There are some tighter bores around, however. The exception I owned slugged to .319.

The .321 170gr bullets were our only choice for years in the late 1950s to the 1970s. They worked quite well, as the bullet sizes itself at first movement and before pressures rise. I know this has been debated for years, but I've found P.O. Ackley was spot on...so far.
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An original load I was able to "regulate" my 1932, 8X57JR Drilling was: 39.5gr/IMR4064/Fed210M/RWS/227RN Norma @ 2030fps and 42.5gr/AA2520/Fed210M/RWS/200Spt Speer (resized .323 to .318 diameter) @ 2350fps. I also had good sucess with 45.0gr/IMR4064/Fed210M/RWS/159RN RWS @2650fps and 44.0gr/IMR4064/Fed210M/RWS/180Spt (.308Spt Sierra "paper patched" with 2 wraps of bond paper) @ 2580fps.
None of the loads showed any signs of anything but moderate pressure, and all shot to POA in my gun. Very little data is available for this caliber, but old Norma reloading "pamphlets" and "Cartidges of the World" do give some information on reloading and "capabilities".
Interestingly, Norma places its power just below that of the 8X57JRS (.323 bore) which is probably due to the older "break action" guns being produced in this caliber rather than the design of the case.
I like mine just the way it is; seeing it as my lone "semi-wildcat" that can do it all. I even have a reduced load of 18.0gr/SR4759/175FNGC cast @ Unk vel. for fun target shooting and small game.
For "shotgunning" I've settled on 1oz lead loads of number 6 and 7 1/2 shot. I've also found a 1oz 16ga Brenneke slug to shoot POA out of the right barrel, while discovering a 3/4oz 20ga Winchester slug in a J-MAR "sleeve" (16ga to 20ga conversion) is close enough to the "flip up" rifle sights to make it usuable to at least 50 yards out of the left. Good luck!
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I got this load from the original owner, passed on from his nephew to me with the gun. Can't say it will match S&B, but seems to go to the same place as the sights on my pre war O/U, which according to them was regulated with 196's. My 8x57R is .323 bore.
RWS brass, norma 196 solids, 42 grains of IMR 3031. I've used CCI LR primers.
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The current CIP Maximum Average Pressure (max service pressure) for these cartridges:

8X57IS (rimless S bore) = 3900 BAR or 56,564 PSI

8X57I (rimless I bore) = 3800 BAR or 55,114 PSI

8X57IRS (rimmed S bore) = 3300 BAR or 47,862 PSI

8X57IR (rimmed I bore) = 3200 BAR or 46,412 PSI
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Thank you everyone for the input, at least i have a couple loads i can start with and see about getting this old girl to be a functionable deer gun! I'll post some progress when I get a chance to take her out. So far only have been able to source 180 grain and 200 grain bullets in .318 but that should be good enough for what I am planning on doing.
 
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