9 mm defense ammo ?

[diananike]

I prefer Bullets with good expansion and multiple cutting petals and a 124gr or 135gr weight. Gold Dot, V Crown, PDX1’s are on my list. The XTP’s do not mushroom sufficiently. The larger the wound channel the better.

I agree 124gr bullets in general are better out of Handguns. I like 124gr +P Golddot for pistol uses (me and most Law Enforcement agencies)

The issue is that most bullets are designed to expand a lot and penetrate on the low end of optimal (closer to 12" than 18") out of pistol length barrels.
Once you start shooting them (115+124gr) 200 or 300 fps faster out of a rifle length barrel these bullets overexpand and wind up underpenetrating or breaking apart.
The 147gr bullets seem to be resisitant to the velocity jumps of carbine barrels generally only going about 100-150fps faster. This usually means they retain their effective 12-18" of penetration and 1.5-2x expansion without breaking apart.
147gr HST and Gold dot gen 1 or 2 are perfect for carbine applications as they do well against intermediate barriers. 147gr XTP from the gel tests I've seen works great from a Carbine.
XTPs in general perform quite a bit better when pushed to the top end of their velocity threshold. Pistol Caliber Carbine shooters who use their rifles for hunting have been saying this for years. However XTPs arent great agains barriers like sheet steel and auto glass so I'd prefer HST or Golddot if I had my top choices.

 

[maifire]

LEO’s here use ranger 147gr(rc) and the city service is still using ranger 40. My pistol vs carbine water jug tests have not shown fragmentation, though i have seen what you are mentioning on youtube.

I am not sold that a fragmented or jacket-stripped bullet is really that bad. Penetration is not adversely affected and you get several wound channels. Perfect bullet placement with a perfect hp bullet deserves a gold star but in defensive scenarios, i feel quick lethality is a lot more of a horseshoe up your poop chute.

 

[TylerM]

OP: I get that your primary concern is cougars and what not but the old saying goes? Just because you aren't hunting for bear, does NOT mean Yogi isn't out there hunting for YOU.

A good Marlin in .45-70 will work.

 

[bunny]

OP: I get that your primary concern is cougars and what not but the old saying goes? Just because you aren't hunting for bear, does NOT mean Yogi isn't out there hunting for YOU.

A good Marlin in .45-70 will work.

I have rifles ranging from .222 to .458 WM, I know most rifles I own would be preferable over a 9 mm PCC, but If that’s what Iam carrying then, I want the best loads. I have settled on 147 XTP’s.
Many years ago I came face to face with a bear distance was 10 feet tops, I was able to endure this stand off with a Valmet M78 with a 20 round mag full of 180 Silvertips. The Bear dropped to all fours and walked away immediately after I thumbed off the safety, no shots fired. I miss that rifle.

 

[Canuck44]

I thought that due to the limited case capacity of the 9mm Parabellum compared to say, the .357 Magnum, that the velocity gains from longer 9mm carbine barrels when compared to 5" pistol barrels were kinda small?

4Gr of Titegroup under 125 gr BDX FMJ AvgVel 1138 fps 5" PPQ Match

4Gr of Titegroup under 125 gr BDX FMJ Avg Vel 1238 fps 18.5"Kel Tec Sub2K

I have a few other comparisons but they all show about the same gain of around 100fps, True in the 9MM and 357mag The gain as you say, is not very much, I prefer my Ruger GP100 loaded with 200gr hard Cast bullets over the 9MM carbines I own. I have not renewed my Wilderness Permit yet so my 41 LC will be my handgun choice until I renew.


Take Care

Bob

 

[lyle c]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned Buffalo Bore's Outdoorsman yet

 

[cement head]

Best cougar defence I can think of is a beard and beer gut....Up to you which you choose....9mm would be effective as well but could require closer quarters risk

At my age I'd welcome an attack from that kind of Cougar. I read an article out of the US one time and it stated Cougars are tough but have been killed with anything from a 22 to a 357 by those who hunt them . me myself I'd feel better protected with a 12 gauge. as for what bullet weight to use in your carbine I'd go with the one that penetrates the best . set up a bunch of wet newspaper say 15 inches in thickness and fire one of each from say 35 yards and see which one penetrates the deepest and the one that expands the best .

please let us know your results .

 

[Trotter]

There have been a few attacks and they have been documented, Canada and USA for bear and 9mm. I recall that results were best with FMJ style. This penetration is due to the thick bear fur/hide. I wish I could cite you the article but it may be worth while using 124 +P FMJ and then alternate rounds to HP.
Speer + P 124 gr. we’re designed to minimize the collateral.
I have a box of these and know they are available. Just my .02