93R17 Savage bolt left hand - misfires. Looking to contact to discuss fix/repair

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RonR

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Hello all, first post on this part of the forum.

I purchased a LH 17 HMR in an auction but it's producing misfires. It's not ammo type related although it eats the Hornady stuff better. Approx 60 to 70 % success on that stuff. 50% or below on your choice of CCI or Federal after that. My son has the twin in right hand which is the comparative knowing that tells me there is something a foot with my lefty.

I have disassembled the bolt in halves and ultrasonic cleaned each half sub assembly and light lube using G96. It worked better on the first 5 rounds in the mag but after that, fell into the same M.O.

One local shop in town here doesn't want to look at this model of rimfire, based on his experiences and the other shop is suggesting I send it back to Savage for repairs after test firing a few rounds and examining the cases after.

Strikes appear strong, but the bottom of the cases in the house ammo used at the second shop appeared to be bulged back and pronounced. All the other fired rounds of the ammo I have purchased didn't exhibit that at all. I don't know if it's a headspace issue or something else.

Needless to say, I am disappointed because it's not any fun to shoot this way at all.

I am looking for some insight based on some experience on these models and what the Achilles heel is. If you are a smith or someone that's had this problem solved then please post or contact via PM and we can converse there.

I'd like to figure out what the costs may be for repair and if it's worth it all to invest in it or sell/trade it with full disclosure. It's a lefty so it means something to me but I will chalk this up to an auction experience and move on to something else.

Regards and thanks for reading.
Ronr
 
Sounds like a headspace issue. Send it back with a detailed letter on frequency of missfires and all ammo types/quantity fired. Also let them know about cleaning and assembling it and what it fired like before and after cleaning.
 
RonR said:
Hello all, first post on this part of the forum.

I purchased a LH 17 HMR in an auction but it's producing misfires. It's not ammo type related although it eats the Hornady stuff better. Approx 60 to 70 % success on that stuff. 50% or below on your choice of CCI or Federal after that. My son has the twin in right hand which is the comparative knowing that tells me there is something a foot with my lefty.

I have disassembled the bolt in halves and ultrasonic cleaned each half sub assembly and light lube using G96. It worked better on the first 5 rounds in the mag but after that, fell into the same M.O.

One local shop in town here doesn't want to look at this model of rimfire, based on his experiences and the other shop is suggesting I send it back to Savage for repairs after test firing a few rounds and examining the cases after.

Strikes appear strong, but the bottom of the cases in the house ammo used at the second shop appeared to be bulged back and pronounced. All the other fired rounds of the ammo I have purchased didn't exhibit that at all. I don't know if it's a headspace issue or something else.

Needless to say, I am disappointed because it's not any fun to shoot this way at all.

I am looking for some insight based on some experience on these models and what the Achilles heel is. If you are a smith or someone that's had this problem solved then please post or contact via PM and we can converse there.

I'd like to figure out what the costs may be for repair and if it's worth it all to invest in it or sell/trade it with full disclosure. It's a lefty so it means something to me but I will chalk this up to an auction experience and move on to something else.

Regards and thanks for reading.
Ronr
Click to expand...

Have you tried other ammo; not all ammo is the same quality. I had a CZ455, and Winchester ammo was prone to splitting the neck of the case, resulting in hot gas blowing back in my face. Also when this happened, the discharge sounds weak and the bullet landed low. I had zero issues with Remington, Federal and Hornady ammo, and believe it or not, best accuracy with the remington. Get ahold of some other ammo.
 
Thanks.

I will try some different ammo from one of the LGS here. There is a Speer round to try albeit that I suspect it's a rebranded some thing or other like Duff or Duff light coming from the same tap.

Pardon my ignorance on gunsmithing, but for this rifle, would the headspace be fixed with barrel machining to receiver fit to make better the headspace? or is it a front bolt that needs to be replaced? Have to be talking something less than .010" no?

Regards
Ron
 
If these are built like the .22s the bolt locks using the rear of the bolt handle against a corresponding recess in the reciever . These surfaces wear with use, resulting in excess headspace. Try pushing the bolt handle forward when locked, if there is any movement, this is likely your problem.Try shooting it with a shim inserted in this gap for a few shots (to hold the bolt forward). If that improves things,then either the bolt handle or the reciever can be built up to tighten the headspace ....catnip
 
catnip said:
If these are built like the .22s the bolt locks using the rear of the bolt handle against a corresponding recess in the reciever . These surfaces wear with use, resulting in excess headspace. Try pushing the bolt handle forward when locked, if there is any movement, this is likely your problem.Try shooting it with a shim inserted in this gap for a few shots (to hold the bolt forward). If that improves things,then either the bolt handle or the reciever can be built up to tighten the headspace ....catnip
Click to expand...

Thanks...I was working the action on the rifle and I understand what you have explained. Simple enough to try and options for a solution if that's the proof in the pudding.

Much obliged. Planning a range trip this weekend and I am hopeful this pays dividends!

Regards and have a good weekend!

Ron

Edit - I think I have a feeler gauge set in the garage to use...
 
If it's any comfort, I have the same problem with a left hand 93 in 22 LR. Owner claims it hasn't fired successfully since purchase. My thought was headspace as well.
 
Note that at least in the right hand models of 93r17 there are a minimym of 3 different lengths of bolts. Why savage would have 3 different bolt lengths for the same model is beyond me. But buying replacement bolts is not simple.
 
Scar270 said:
Note that at least in the right hand models of 93r17 there are a minimym of 3 different lengths of bolts. Why savage would have 3 different bolt lengths for the same model is beyond me. But buying replacement bolts is not simple.
Click to expand...

Both the Left and Right forward section of the bolts are interchangeable, Extractor is placed on the corresponding side for the ejection of the spent case. I would assume the difference is in the rear section of the bolt.
 
gunrunner100 said:
Both the Left and Right forward section of the bolts are interchangeable, Extractor is placed on the corresponding side for the ejection of the spent case. I would assume the difference is in the rear section of the bolt.
Click to expand...

I didn't know that. Thanks for sharing. Perhaps what ever the solution here is, may work for the 93 you have.

I did use a feeler guage between the bolt handle and the receiver today and .015 was the highest I could get when the bolt was fully closed.

Also thanks Scar for noting the front bolt length having 3 options. In an earlier post I was going to make a quip about the Lee Mk 4 having an interchangeable bolt head thinking that would have been foolish to wonder about that out loud...

Thanks for posting
Ron
 
The bolts i went through are not just a few thousands different like the enfield for spacing, these are like a 1/4" different.
If you got it to close with 0.015" feeler gauges on a cartridge that is excessive. Minimum is 0.050" headspace, max is 0.056“ so only 0.006" window. Even if your catridges are at minimum saami spec for rim thickness, and your chamber is at max.. Minimum rim thickness is 0.042", max chamber is 0.056“, that 0.014“ if everything is as far out as possible while in "spec".

If its seen lots of use i have worn out a savage mkII in 22lr to where headspace was large enough to give ignition problems, and seen another with the same issue. On mine a new bolt solved it.
 
Scar270 said:
The bolts i went through are not just a few thousands different like the enfield for spacing, these are like a 1/4" different.
If you got it to close with 0.015" feeler gauges on a cartridge that is excessive. Minimum is 0.050" headspace, max is 0.056“ so only 0.006" window. Even if your catridges are at minimum saami spec for rim thickness, and your chamber is at max.. Minimum rim thickness is 0.042", max chamber is 0.056“, that 0.014“ if everything is as far out as possible while in "spec".

If its seen lots of use i have worn out a savage mkII in 22lr to where headspace was large enough to give ignition problems, and seen another with the same issue. On mine a new bolt solved it.
Click to expand...

For information today at the range I went 10 for 10 on fires using two different types of ammo when using a .010 feeler gauge. As soon as I didn't use the feeler gauge, consecutive misfires.

Based on what you are sharing Scar: Given .006 window. and I have .015 to the point at which the bolt is a hard close, is .009 perhaps the minimum space that's needed to be made up? .009 to .015 is the window to look at trying to solve.. do I have this concept correct?

A front half bolt may be an option to provide enough length increase to solve misfire maybe one solution? Would a second be a new bolt handle perhaps? There seems to be some wear on the handle where it contacts the receiver. ( I hate the current handle. )

Pardon my ignorance on the following questions but I have to ask
1. are components ever built up and machined down? Noted it seems like a lot of effort but .010 to .015 on the bolt handle seems something achievable... unless the gunsmith fees to produce this result outweigh the price of the part i guess,
2. a simple washer of .010 to .015 between bolt halves ... or is this consideration preposterous?
3. am I eligible to order these parts to swap for repair myself? at least the front half bolt replacement? Bolt handle replacement in the back half of the bolt maybe requires a smith.

For clarity, the point isn't to pinch pennies, rather to work towards a solution. I believe if I had the solution in one hand, and genuine request in the other I would be able to get this thing fixed locally to either enjoy myself OR honestly sell with clean bill of health. I wrench when appropriate but know when it needs to get farmed out.

I appreciate all the help and wisdom shared.

Regards
Ron
 
You have the right idea on how much headspace you need to take up.

Adding a shim between the bolt halves will reduce your firing pin impact, so you may solve headspace but still get light strikes.

The bolt handle should be the softest part, so it wears not the reciever. I new back half of the bolt, ie replace the bolt handle is best. Western gun parts was only selling complete bolts, and as I discovered, good luck getting the correct bolt, and the only sell to smiths or licensed dealers. I assume because they probably need filed in to fit headspace correctly.

Building it up is maybe possible, not sure on bolt construction, if the handle is soldered on it my fall off.

Might be possible to drill a hole and epoxy a pin into the back of the bolt, but if the pin is harder then the receiver, you are then wearing on the receiver .

Edit: just want to add i dont blame wgp for the trouble getting the correct bolt, even after i contacted savage with a serial number they were no help in getting me a number that translated to the correct bolt.
 
You should be able to build up the rear of the bolt handle (I have done this with old cooey bolts, and they were soldered in I believe). Wrap the bolt in a cold wet cloth (heat sink),a QUICK spot with a welder ,let cool, and apply a file to obtain the proper fit. I would think this could be done to the rear of the receiver notch as well,but the deposited material might not be as hard as the original.(might wear faster). Just remember there is a spring inside that bolt so no more heat than absolutely necessary on the handle unless you take it apart, if you choose this option. That might be a point in favor of building up the receiver instead, now that I think about it.....catnip
 
Scar270 said:
You have the right idea on how much headspace you need to take up.

Adding a shim between the bolt halves will reduce your firing pin impact, so you may solve headspace but still get light strikes.

The bolt handle should be the softest part, so it wears not the reciever. I new back half of the bolt, ie replace the bolt handle is best. Western gun parts was only selling complete bolts, and as I discovered, good luck getting the correct bolt, and the only sell to smiths or licensed dealers. I assume because they probably need filed in to fit headspace correctly.

Building it up is maybe possible, not sure on bolt construction, if the handle is soldered on it my fall off.

Might be possible to drill a hole and epoxy a pin into the back of the bolt, but if the pin is harder then the receiver, you are then wearing on the receiver .

Edit: just want to add i dont blame wgp for the trouble getting the correct bolt, even after i contacted savage with a serial number they were no help in getting me a number that translated to the correct bolt.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the insight on what to look for. A spacer/washer is what I will try to source first. Next will look at the bolt.

Regards
Ron

catnip said:
You should be able to build up the rear of the bolt handle (I have done this with old cooey bolts, and they were soldered in I believe). Wrap the bolt in a cold wet cloth (heat sink),a QUICK spot with a welder ,let cool, and apply a file to obtain the proper fit. I would think this could be done to the rear of the receiver notch as well,but the deposited material might not be as hard as the original.(might wear faster). Just remember there is a spring inside that bolt so no more heat than absolutely necessary on the handle unless you take it apart, if you choose this option. That might be a point in favor of building up the receiver instead, now that I think about it.....catnip
Click to expand...

I know just the guy to splash a bit of metal on it like described above and I can file to fit. That will be the second thing I will aim at. Thanks for the bit about heatsinking to not have the heat spread causing different issues.

I have to ask, if this has a spot of weld, do you think the handle would still be removable from the bolt? In other words, if this is done, am I at the point of no return on swapping in a new bolt handle if I need to?

Cheers!
Ron
 
If the fellow running the welder is careful, all the build up should be on the bolt handle. I don't see it causing a problem. Of course you know what cheap advice is worth.......catnip
 
catnip said:
If the fellow running the welder is careful, all the build up should be on the bolt handle. I don't see it causing a problem. Of course you know what cheap advice is worth.......catnip
Click to expand...

Got it. Just be smart and good about it.

Thanks again,
Ron
 
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