98K sight help
- Thread starter Buck Turgidson
- Start date
Well, the least invasive method would be to shoot with a six o' clock hold to account for the POI. Also, if you reload, you can tailor a load grain-wise that will hit the elevation that you want.
If you are looking for something more precise, I would replace the front sight blade. I used a front sight blank from a Swede M96 and my K98 shoots POA at 100 meters now. The Swede ones are very high so you will have plenty to work with. Just file it down until you reach the desired POI for your K98.
If you are looking for something more precise, I would replace the front sight blade. I used a front sight blank from a Swede M96 and my K98 shoots POA at 100 meters now. The Swede ones are very high so you will have plenty to work with. Just file it down until you reach the desired POI for your K98.
What is the sight picture your using?
Perhaps an ammunition difference (grain of ammo is? ... 198gr etc? ... commercial or handloads?), based upon the rifle being set-up and zeroed with something completely different than German 8mm military spec.
Extract from German K98k Manual
No, I don't speak German ....
Regards,
Badger
Perhaps an ammunition difference (grain of ammo is? ... 198gr etc? ... commercial or handloads?), based upon the rifle being set-up and zeroed with something completely different than German 8mm military spec.
Extract from German K98k Manual
No, I don't speak German ....
Regards,
Badger
Buck Turgidson
Regular
Holy smokes! I guess I shoot with the far left S.P. i was thinking that was the ONLY correct way to shoot. but now that i see that it makes perfect sense to change it as required. anybody able read german hahah? it looks like the second from the left would be the most appropriate to lower my POI. thanks very much.
the ammo that i am currently using in the serbian 8mm mauser stuff....150g if i remember correctly
the only problem with that sight picture is that i'm going to have to squish my face into the stock to get the front sight that high!
the ammo that i am currently using in the serbian 8mm mauser stuff....150g if i remember correctly
the only problem with that sight picture is that i'm going to have to squish my face into the stock to get the front sight that high!
Buck, you actually want the third from the left. The second from the left would only increase your problem. Your front sight is to low now and your K98 was sighted in for 300meters from the factory with issue ball ammunition.
I have tried various ammo from North American and European sources- all commercial, not milsurp.
I one memorable outing, Sellier Bellot 196gr round nose ammo shot 7 inches higher than point of aim while 170 grain remington round nose was right on point of aim. The recoil from the SB was considerably stiffer than that from the Rem ammo.
I had the same issue with 2 lots of Norma. One was 125 grain match ammo and the other was 220 grain Alaskan. As expected, a noticable difference in point of impact.
You can adjust your sights as others have suggested. However, if you are planning on shooting different ammo, you might find yourself adjusting the sights every time you switch brands or loadings.
I one memorable outing, Sellier Bellot 196gr round nose ammo shot 7 inches higher than point of aim while 170 grain remington round nose was right on point of aim. The recoil from the SB was considerably stiffer than that from the Rem ammo.
I had the same issue with 2 lots of Norma. One was 125 grain match ammo and the other was 220 grain Alaskan. As expected, a noticable difference in point of impact.
You can adjust your sights as others have suggested. However, if you are planning on shooting different ammo, you might find yourself adjusting the sights every time you switch brands or loadings.
fwiw, I tried my (now sold) K98 at 375 yds, and had set the slide on the rear sight to a tad under 400m, and using the sight picture on the far left, missed every time. For the hell of it, I set the sight slide to 100m and hit the gong every time...
translation
I do, if it's of interest I can translate that.
Top picture talks about mistakes while aiming.
All of these are declared wrong (falsch - this is old Gothic type) except the one on the left (richtig=correct). You couldn't possibly shoot with any modicum of accuracy trying to hold over by moving your front sight up and down in the sight.
I'll have to go back look at the picture to read the second one.
Sorry, I have a great memory, just short
What is the sight picture your using?
Perhaps an ammunition difference (grain of ammo is? ... 198gr etc? ... commercial or handloads?), based upon the rifle being set-up and zeroed with something completely different than German 8mm military spec.
Extract from German K98k Manual
No, I don't speak German ....
Regards,
Badger
I do, if it's of interest I can translate that.
Top picture talks about mistakes while aiming.
All of these are declared wrong (falsch - this is old Gothic type) except the one on the left (richtig=correct). You couldn't possibly shoot with any modicum of accuracy trying to hold over by moving your front sight up and down in the sight.
I'll have to go back look at the picture to read the second one.
Sorry, I have a great memory, just short
second photo from manual
translation:
"if the sight is only adjustable past 400m (for example model G08/15), then the POI will be above the target if the point of aim is on the target.
In these cases the point of aim must be moved below the target:
at 100m = 30cm
200m = 35cm
300m = 30cm
350m = 20cm "
That's the way soldiers used to shoot and rifles were set because it's easier to hold a foot below your actual target with iron sights.
As an added note of experience. I was a soldier when rifles with iron sights that were not easily adjustable were still standard issue (and not it wasn't Mausers, Enfields, nagants - I'm not that old).
IT was common practice for us to know your individual rifle and know where POI was at 100, 200, 300m. Having one that shot high was better. For three months I once had one issued that was shooting low and left, I got used to it and was able to hit the targets prone to 250m but it was a pain initially.
translation:
"if the sight is only adjustable past 400m (for example model G08/15), then the POI will be above the target if the point of aim is on the target.
In these cases the point of aim must be moved below the target:
at 100m = 30cm
200m = 35cm
300m = 30cm
350m = 20cm "
That's the way soldiers used to shoot and rifles were set because it's easier to hold a foot below your actual target with iron sights.
As an added note of experience. I was a soldier when rifles with iron sights that were not easily adjustable were still standard issue (and not it wasn't Mausers, Enfields, nagants - I'm not that old).
IT was common practice for us to know your individual rifle and know where POI was at 100, 200, 300m. Having one that shot high was better. For three months I once had one issued that was shooting low and left, I got used to it and was able to hit the targets prone to 250m but it was a pain initially.
Buck Turgidson
Regular
So I took my 98 to the range. horrible experience! my groupings were terrible!. not a round within 10" of the last. could this be the ammo? I don't want to believe I have a crappy shooter!. my nagant was shooting 3 " groups. So I know it wasn't my skills or the conditions
I was using the Prvi partizan 8mm Mauser. 139 grain....i changed my sight picture and avaraged high or low accordingly. but it was all over the place. HELP!
P.S thanks for the translation. far left sigth picture IS the correct way
I was using the Prvi partizan 8mm Mauser. 139 grain....i changed my sight picture and avaraged high or low accordingly. but it was all over the place. HELP!
P.S thanks for the translation. far left sigth picture IS the correct way
You could try buying a box of factory ammo - eg Remington 170 gr RN and then put up 2 targets. Fire 5 factory rounds at one target and then 5 of your milsurp at the other. Use exactly the same point of aim on both targets for all rounds fired.
Shoot off a good bench rest or in the supported prone position.
If both makes of ammo are all over the place, and you have done everything you can think of to be consistent in your shooting, then you could be looking at a rifle that is a poor shooter for any one of hundreds of reasons. eg damaged crown, barrel worn out,damaged or bent, action screws not tight, sights loose, bedding issues etc etc etc.
good luck
Ok, since i grew up shooting mausers and continue to do so to this day, im going to chime in here.
Ammo: In my experience 8mm 98k's shoot best with heavy bullets especially the 196 fmj's (there is a reason ze germans used this bullet) if you dont handload S&B 196fmj is a good round.
Elevation: As has been mentioned 98k sights are set up to be on target at 300m on their lowest setting (front sight even with top of rear sight 6 o'clock hold). If you want to shoot POA at 100m you will need a taller front sight blade.
Proper zeroing: Since the front sight has to be drifted left or right, it can be a challenge. I have found the easiest way is to set up a cardboard target at 20m with a 1" square piece of paper glued to it. Drift the sight approx 1mm at a time. Use a 6 o'clock hold, fire one round, note impact, drift sight, repeat. Eventually you will walk that bullet right into the center of that little square and behold, perfect zero. Once there fire two more rounds. If they overlap or even better, shoot into one hole your rifle is good to go. If not see below. Zeroing in this way will ensure that rifle is shooting exact center line and will be more precise than zeroing at 50m because it will be waaaay harder to shoot into the center of one inch at that distance.
Front and lower bands: They must be tight, shim them if they have any play. If they move at all fine accuracy is going to be a problem. The lower band (where sling goes) is the more important of the two. Use an old feeler gauge for shims on the inside lower portion of the band so it is tight when tapped into place and will pull down on handguard and barrel. Once its shimmed make sure your action screws are tightened down and the lock screws are locking the action screws. If they dont align when fully tight you can use a small very thin washer to time the action screw to line up with the lock screw when action is fully tightened down. Now that barrel/action should be tight in the stock and the rifle should shoot consistently. After you do this you will have to re-zero your rifle.
As for shooting: I shoot my mausers at 300m most of the time. If im closer than that i have to aim lower (takes practice but its not hard) if shooting beyond 300 start ramping up the rear sight. Hope this helps.
Ammo: In my experience 8mm 98k's shoot best with heavy bullets especially the 196 fmj's (there is a reason ze germans used this bullet) if you dont handload S&B 196fmj is a good round.
Elevation: As has been mentioned 98k sights are set up to be on target at 300m on their lowest setting (front sight even with top of rear sight 6 o'clock hold). If you want to shoot POA at 100m you will need a taller front sight blade.
Proper zeroing: Since the front sight has to be drifted left or right, it can be a challenge. I have found the easiest way is to set up a cardboard target at 20m with a 1" square piece of paper glued to it. Drift the sight approx 1mm at a time. Use a 6 o'clock hold, fire one round, note impact, drift sight, repeat. Eventually you will walk that bullet right into the center of that little square and behold, perfect zero. Once there fire two more rounds. If they overlap or even better, shoot into one hole your rifle is good to go. If not see below. Zeroing in this way will ensure that rifle is shooting exact center line and will be more precise than zeroing at 50m because it will be waaaay harder to shoot into the center of one inch at that distance.
Front and lower bands: They must be tight, shim them if they have any play. If they move at all fine accuracy is going to be a problem. The lower band (where sling goes) is the more important of the two. Use an old feeler gauge for shims on the inside lower portion of the band so it is tight when tapped into place and will pull down on handguard and barrel. Once its shimmed make sure your action screws are tightened down and the lock screws are locking the action screws. If they dont align when fully tight you can use a small very thin washer to time the action screw to line up with the lock screw when action is fully tightened down. Now that barrel/action should be tight in the stock and the rifle should shoot consistently. After you do this you will have to re-zero your rifle.
As for shooting: I shoot my mausers at 300m most of the time. If im closer than that i have to aim lower (takes practice but its not hard) if shooting beyond 300 start ramping up the rear sight. Hope this helps.
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