9mm Ammo Malfunction,School me.

[Rippo]

Shooting my Vector and I had a weird one?
Not sure what caused it?
The Case clean cut in half. Round did the usual went down rang bang OK
Back of case ejected but next round Jamed caused me to swear some.
This is what I found,
Front section of case stuck in breach but came out easily with dental pick….now pick a part of range kit.
This is the entire case?
It was a reloaded HP but not one of mine.

 

[maple_leaf_eh]

Separated casing. Shoot enough rounds through anything that feeds itself, and you'll get them. As a young soldier they were a very common stoppage on the MG 7.62 C1 (ie a 30-06 Browning M1919A4 converted to 7.62 belt fed for Canada, which became the C5). The tool was issued, and the sort of thing unpacked third after the screwdriver, and the Go No Go gauge set on a chain. The headspace is too loose and the cases pull apart. Even happens with brand new ammo, not just reloads.

 

[Rippo]

Ah I’m starting to understand what you’re saying!
Instead of stretching within the empty headspace it’s whipped forward something like cracking a whip.
I really enjoy learning about Physics. And ya I’m starting to get my head around this one!
I’ve had some blowouts=fun. But this was different and didn’t realize that anything wrong happened, thinking just a jam
And then confused why a round won’t go in . Did see the case half for a while.
Thought it was a Squib but saw threw the barrel fine. Some head scratching till I saw the issue!
Thanks for the help explaining! ok (Separated casing)

 

[maple_leaf_eh]

Ah I’m starting to understand what you’re saying!
Instead of stretching within the empty headspace it’s whipped forward something like cracking a whip.
I really enjoy learning about Physics. And ya I’m starting to get my head around this one!
I’ve had some blowouts=fun. But this was different and didn’t realize that anything wrong happened, thinking just a jam
And then confused why a round won’t go in . Did see the case half for a while.
Thought it was a Squib but saw threw the barrel fine. Some head scratching till I saw the issue!
Thanks for the help explaining! ok (Separated casing)

Upon firing, the brass case expands and through the phenomenon of dissimilar metal adhesion stays stuck to the steel chamber for a few milliseconds. Then the brass rebounds and the pressure drops so the case can be extracted. But it is a delicate dance of tolerances. Your case could have been delayed by dirt or some other now lost resistance. It could have been fractionally weaker than every other case in the box, and when the extraction cycle wrenched on it, an annular tear formed. It may have been shorter and seated deeper in the chamber. Straight wall cases seat with the round lip against a shoulder in the chamber. That much extra distance might have been enough on that case with that charge and that extraction cycle to case the separation. Chalk it all up to experience!

 

[cement head]

So someone reloaded the ammo not you . you stated that . who knows how many times that piece of brass was fired . was there oil in your chamber or did you clean it before you shot . as the Gentleman said above the case sticks to the inside of the chamber for Milliseconds and from what I was told many years ago while having a hard time opening a bolt on a Mauser rifle after firing a round if there is oil in the chamber it can make for hard extraction . or the brass was about to give up the ghost . if it keeps happening then maybe you have a problem .

 

[Rippo]

The barrel was cleaned a few day before.
Cleaning patch with lightly applied 2cycle oil ran threw barrel followed by a dry patch
that laps up any excess! So yes oil was used.
But this occurred after firing ~ 150 rds that session, with zero extraction issues.
And yes this was a reloaded case that could have had multiple uses, metal fatigue?
Well this has been interesting and informative.
If you’re not learning you’re not living just fooling yourself.
Hopefully this doesn’t happen again! And thankfully it wasn’t a Squib !!

 

[OkayShooter]

I noticed reloads they will budge the case at the base of the seated bullet. Then many will use a factory crimp that will squeeze it back. Do that alot and it can happen. Never had case separation, but split a few cases.

 

[B]

Many different cases have a cannelure on the case to prevent bullet setback. That can be a failure point, I have seen it a few times throughout the years.

 

[cement head]

The barrel was cleaned a few day before.
Cleaning patch with lightly applied 2cycle oil ran threw barrel followed by a dry patch
that laps up any excess! So yes oil was used.
But this occurred after firing ~ 150 rds that session, with zero extraction issues.
And yes this was a reloaded case that could have had multiple uses, metal fatigue?
Well this has been interesting and informative.
If you’re not learning you’re not living just fooling yourself.
Hopefully this doesn’t happen again! And thankfully it wasn’t a Squib !!

WOW total honesty and some great philosophy to boot . as you said it very well could have been metal fatigue. I've heard of the rim of a case getting ripped right off and the whole case is still in the action. hence the reason they sell case extractors. thankfully I haven't had to mess around with something like this issue. I've heard of guys taking these case extractors in with them while hunting . it would be a nightmare if you were way in the bush hunting and something such as this happened.

 

[I Dont Care About You]

So someone reloaded the ammo not you . you stated that . who knows how many times that piece of brass was fired . was there oil in your chamber or did you clean it before you shot . as the Gentleman said above the case sticks to the inside of the chamber for Milliseconds and from what I was told many years ago while having a hard time opening a bolt on a Mauser rifle after firing a round if there is oil in the chamber it can make for hard extraction . or the brass was about to give up the ghost . if it keeps happening then maybe you have a problem .

A rifle is not a handgun and the things that happen to rifle are cases are different than happen to pistol cases.

A lubed rifle case causes excessive bolt thrust which jams the casing and bolt together, which is what causes hard extraction. This scenario could not happen with a blow back action.

Rifle cases split at the web, just ahead of the extractor groove due to excessive stretching. This typically does not happen to pistol cases and even if it did, this case split way forward of the case web.

Normally pistol cases fail at the case mouth when they split. While this can happen with rifle cases it is much less common.

IF this were a reloading problem, in pistol cases, excessive pressures usually manifest as a bulged and split case at the web.

The separated case in this .... case ... is an odd one and not likely to occur again.

 

[I Dont Care About You]

WOW total honesty and some great philosophy to boot . as you said it very well could have been metal fatigue. I've heard of the rim of a case getting ripped right off and the whole case is still in the action. hence the reason they sell case extractors.

Good lord.

In the case of the rim being partially ripped off by the extractor, a case extractor won't help one bit. Case extractors are meant for situations exactly like the OP encountered, when the case splits and the front half of the case remains in the chamber. The extractor is pushed up inside the remaining casing and pulls it out of the chamber.

The only reason people take shell extractors out hunting is because they are using 303 British which, when reloaded improperly has a habit of splitting the case in half.

 

[maple_leaf_eh]

....

A lubed rifle case causes excessive bolt thrust which jams the casing and bolt together, which is what causes hard extraction. This scenario could not happen with a blow back action.


....

Thank you for stating that possibility. A 'light' oiling of the chamber is only necessary for storage, otherwise leave it dry. Making the chamber slippery when firing changes all those pressures and adhesion functions I mentioned earlier. When a proof house or an arsenal is testing for maximum strength, they use oiled rounds which put all the pressure on the bolt lugs.

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=15504

 

[alpining]

... When a proof house or an arsenal is testing for maximum strength, they use oiled rounds which put all the pressure on the bolt lugs....

I didn't know that, thanks.

 

[easy]

………..

 

[TargetAcquired]

This used to happen to me when I first started reloading the Enfield until I learned to fire form and marry brass to a specific rifle. I've never had that happen on my vector, but when I first got it I was so excited to shoot it that I couldn't wait to reload and bought the most economical factory ammo I could find. I didn't pay enough attention and only realized when I started opened a box that it was aluminum cased. Didn't think much of it and it fired the ammo fine, but ruined every single case. I reload with brass now, and I can see on the case where it wants to do the same damage but they extract okay and some I have reloaded twice now. I don't expect to get a ton of mileage out of the brass, and my assumption is just that the vector is just like that.

Edit missed the 9mm. Mine is 45.