9mm ammo recommendations

Cocked&Locked said:
Nor do i shoot bullseye, but some of it crosses over into shooting anything accurately. And there's nothing worse then having someone come out for holster qualification or "practice" who has dumped 1000's of rounds down range teaching themselves bad habits that you then have to deprogram before teaching them to shoot again. Sig's will shoot into less then 2" at 20 yards with good ammo. Does this guy need ammo that good? No, but you made an absolute statement and that's what i responded too. 90% of my shooting is idpa and a bit of ipsc. still doesn't make what i said wrong. crap ammo shoots crap. If you can shoot 4" at 10 yards it doesn't matter what you shoot, but some of those shots will be at 20, and some norc ammo (and some mfs) wont hold 6" at that range. That only leaves the shooter 1" of error , and it won't teach him anything because it isnt consistent and he won't know if he's missing or the ammo or the gun is. If i had 10 bucks for every guy who told me his pistol of choice was broke or inaccurate cause it won't shoot, but with someone else shooting it it ran just fine for accuracy i could purchase quite a nice sig for myself. No sense stacking the deck against yourself when your learning to save3$.
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Wasting time and money as a novice to "find" what your gun shoots well, in hopes of shaving 2"/10MOA off your 20 yard groups when you have atleast 30 MOA worth of fundamental errors is bad form. The vast majority of handgun users do not understand the fundamentals let alone master them. Focusing on the hardware(consumable in this case) only to negate any positive effect it may have with your lack of performance will teach you less. The only aspects of bullseye that cross over are the fundamentals; sight alignment, trigger squeeze and follow through. Shooting at speed, working the reset, malfunction drills, positional shooting, round counting(if you game that hard), reloading, and drawing from the holster are skills you won't learn doing bullseye. The extreme precision sought in bullseye has no place in the action shooting disciplines. IPSC's motto is DVC. I believe its latin for Accuracy, power, Speed. You need the right blend of all three to be successful and the IPSC community understands that. As for IDPA or other reality based disciplines, a fist sized group is good enough. Shoot smaller groups means you need to shoot faster. Shoot larger groups and you need to slow down. At the speeds needed to achieve these fist sized groups there are many factors which are in play. Your ammo is the least important.

I shoot whatever is cheap(no steel case is my only rule) and I mix and match. I have yet to notice a difference in my performance from brand to brand, weight to weight or short range to long range. By mix and match I mean within the same magazine and/or same range session. Ammo is ammo, especially at traditional handgun ranges. Seek professional training, learn the fundamentals and stop wasting time and money on the rest.

TDC
 
TDC said:
Wasting time and money as a novice to "find" what your gun shoots well, in hopes of shaving 2"/10MOA off your 20 yard groups when you have atleast 30 MOA worth of fundamental errors is bad form. The vast majority of handgun users do not understand the fundamentals let alone master them. Focusing on the hardware(consumable in this case) only to negate any positive effect it may have with your lack of performance will teach you less. The only aspects of bullseye that cross over are the fundamentals; sight alignment, trigger squeeze and follow through. Shooting at speed, working the reset, malfunction drills, positional shooting, round counting(if you game that hard), reloading, and drawing from the holster are skills you won't learn doing bullseye. The extreme precision sought in bullseye has no place in the action shooting disciplines. IPSC's motto is DVC. I believe its latin for Accuracy, power, Speed. You need the right blend of all three to be successful and the IPSC community understands that. As for IDPA or other reality based disciplines, a fist sized group is good enough. Shoot smaller groups means you need to shoot faster. Shoot larger groups and you need to slow down. At the speeds needed to achieve these fist sized groups there are many factors which are in play. Your ammo is the least important.

I shoot whatever is cheap(no steel case is my only rule) and I mix and match. I have yet to notice a difference in my performance from brand to brand, weight to weight or short range to long range. By mix and match I mean within the same magazine and/or same range session. Ammo is ammo, especially at traditional handgun ranges. Seek professional training, learn the fundamentals and stop wasting time and money on the rest.

TDC
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All excellent points, and i agree with all of them. I think perhaps we're talking in circles from opposite sides of the room :D.

Personally, i will shoot steel case MFS in certain handguns, but that as you say is personal preference. And i shoot it because it shoots well in those guns. 99% of my ammo is reloaded, and in every hand gun i own except one that shoots as well or better then factory.

Your absolutely right about seeking training, and about most having no grasp of fundamentals. The three skills you mention will (i feel, opinion only, but with some background teaching all those skills you mention) negate everything else if you can't do them at least competently.

There is one shooter i know who comes out to practice with 500 rounds a week, shoots it all in 10 shot strings as fast as he can, then wonders why his groups never shrink beyond 10" at 10 yards. On the few times i can get him to slow down and press the trigger, then ride the reset he shoots almost as fast, but does it into 4". but he like's shooting as fast as he can yank rather then practicing reset.....which would make him even faster if he'd practice, and more accurate to boot.....:slap:

Personally, (again just me) i tend to separate the "handling skills" ie draws and presentation, clearance and reloads, and safe movement on the course from the shooting skills. I feel they're separate skills best learned separately. You can be really good at either one, but unless you do both, you won't score well.

IPSC scoring will tend to emphasis speed, as that's really what the game is about anymore these days. That's not a disparagement, the best shooters in the game are phenomenal! IDPA scoring is (again only personal opinion, and the value you place on mine may be dropping LOL) somewhat more balanced, but the ranges tend to be shorter so you can get away with the ole "I Dont Practice Anymore" mentality easier at the middle level.

ANyways, it's late, been a long crappy day, and reading your reply has been the highlight. thanks for the well reasoned response. If i was sort of snarky in my first reply forgive me, i've had a number of issues ongoing this week, and spent the day today burying a good friend. None of which excuses my #####yness...ive always enjoyed your posts in the past and i jumped in shooting when i didn't need to. Peace and good evening.
 
Cocked&Locked said:
All excellent points, and i agree with all of them. I think perhaps we're talking in circles from opposite sides of the room :D.

Personally, i will shoot steel case MFS in certain handguns, but that as you say is personal preference. And i shoot it because it shoots well in those guns. 99% of my ammo is reloaded, and in every hand gun i own except one that shoots as well or better then factory.

Your absolutely right about seeking training, and about most having no grasp of fundamentals. The three skills you mention will (i feel, opinion only, but with some background teaching all those skills you mention) negate everything else if you can't do them at least competently.

There is one shooter i know who comes out to practice with 500 rounds a week, shoots it all in 10 shot strings as fast as he can, then wonders why his groups never shrink beyond 10" at 10 yards. On the few times i can get him to slow down and press the trigger, then ride the reset he shoots almost as fast, but does it into 4". but he like's shooting as fast as he can yank rather then practicing reset.....which would make him even faster if he'd practice, and more accurate to boot.....:slap:

Personally, (again just me) i tend to separate the "handling skills" ie draws and presentation, clearance and reloads, and safe movement on the course from the shooting skills. I feel they're separate skills best learned separately. You can be really good at either one, but unless you do both, you won't score well.

IPSC scoring will tend to emphasis speed, as that's really what the game is about anymore these days. That's not a disparagement, the best shooters in the game are phenomenal! IDPA scoring is (again only personal opinion, and the value you place on mine may be dropping LOL) somewhat more balanced, but the ranges tend to be shorter so you can get away with the ole "I Dont Practice Anymore" mentality easier at the middle level.

ANyways, it's late, been a long crappy day, and reading your reply has been the highlight. thanks for the well reasoned response. If i was sort of snarky in my first reply forgive me, i've had a number of issues ongoing this week, and spent the day today burying a good friend. None of which excuses my #####yness...ive always enjoyed your posts in the past and i jumped in shooting when i didn't need to. Peace and good evening.
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No offense taken and my condolences to you, your late friend and all family and friends. Losing someone is never fun and one of the few things in life we all would sooner do without.

We seem to be on similar pages. As for IDPA, you're right, its not as heavily weighted on speed but it is important. Only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss. In light of IDPA's origins you can't afford to take your sweet time to make the shot. The blend of speed and accuracy is what determines where you place/score and slow accurate shooters rarely beat faster and slightly less accurate shooters. Personally, its easier and faster to shoot more than focus my efforts on precise shots.

TDC
 
grab a handfull of all different weights and velocities...load it in a mag and shoot it. You will find out soon enough which weight ammo you prefer.
 
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TDC said:
No offense taken and my condolences to you, your late friend and all family and friends. Losing someone is never fun and one of the few things in life we all would sooner do without.

We seem to be on similar pages. As for IDPA, you're right, its not as heavily weighted on speed but it is important. Only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss. In light of IDPA's origins you can't afford to take your sweet time to make the shot. The blend of speed and accuracy is what determines where you place/score and slow accurate shooters rarely beat faster and slightly less accurate shooters. Personally, its easier and faster to shoot more than focus my efforts on precise shots.

TDC
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:D First thing i tell the guys who try to shoot super fast is "you can't miss fast enough to win"
 
Blazer Brass 115 fmj's are pretty good for me. About the best price at my local shop/range. Reloadable also. I have been advised to stay away from MFS or steel case ammo.
 
JohnnyNitrous said:
I bought a couple boxes of that to try out. Ill be saving my brass in case I decide to start reloading.
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just make sure you don't get MFS brass mixed up with your reloadable brass. I know of a few shooters who have broke decapping pins on there press as the MFS brass got mixed in.
 
I was hesitant about MFS, but after getting beaned by it repeatedly from Clob's HK, and realizing he wasn't having any misfires, and that he was hitting the target, figured I'd try it out. 1,000 rounds later, no issues, and I can still hit a 3x5 card at 15 yards, so what the hell. It's great for times when you're tight for time, and don't have half an hour to pick up brass after you're done.

come to think of it I've learned a few things from Clob.
 
JohnnyNitrous said:
Ive shot handguns but this is my first one I have owned. I went and bought a bunch of 115, 124, and 147 grain loads and gonna shoot them all just to try them as I will need practice with my new gun. Sounds like it doesnt matter much what I put in it unless im in some kind of competition.
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dont let the negative make you loose interest in experimenting. It sure matters. Try it and get a feel for it. I liked 115 gn in my G17. they will all work but some are better for the gun and of course you. Its all a personal choice.
 
I have 4 brand new Sig P226 9mm 10 round mags that came with my TacOps that Im selling for $40.00 each. Please let me know if anybody is interested. Thanks.
 
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