9mm Carbine recipes?

driller212

driller212

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Hey folks,

I am having a heck of a time finding reloading recipes with slower burning powders to maximize the velocity out of an 18.5" barrel. Anyone have any to share to help a guy out? I currently have h110 and h4895 in the cabinet.

Thanks folks!
 
You're looking based on a fallacy. Whatever load gives you max MV in a short barrel will yield max MV in a longer barrel. Run some loads over your chrony with a handgun and the carbine and you'll see.

Highest MV's will result from loads containing the most powder, while operating at max safe pressure.
 
I have used Win 540 and 115 grain bullets. Dirty powder but accurate. My Sub 2000 works best with 115 grain.
 
Andy said:
You're looking based on a fallacy. Whatever load gives you max MV in a short barrel will yield max MV in a longer barrel. Run some loads over your chrony with a handgun and the carbine and you'll see.

Highest MV's will result from loads containing the most powder, while operating at max safe pressure.
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Would the super fast pistol powders not benefit though from the longer carbine barrel? Would you not be able to use a slightly slower burning powder to make the most out of the barrel length. Yes the pistol rounds will be faster in the carbine as all the powder is burned but some powders should have a greater velocity jump from pistol to carbine should they not?
 
I did some initial testing when I was doing some 9mm load development with Longshot. a relatively slow pistol powder. I used some commercially reloaded ammo by Custom Reloading Services as my baseline, and I believe they used Titegroup which is a fairly fast pistol powder. My 9mm AR only has a 10.5" barrel, but I did see a nice increase in my Longshot loads, but only a small increase in FPS with they CRS ammo. I'm sure an 18" barrel would show larger increases in speed with the slower pistol powder.

K100 vs AR Testing 2015-11-19.jpg
 

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Hey Driller,

Pretty sure those are both rifle powders.

I use campro 124gr jhp in my TNW ASR. 4.1 gr titegroup and following campro’s load data for COAL etc I have had zero FTF or FTE. Hope that helps! You should be studying for school, not reloading :).

Jonesy
 
I wouldn't use either of those powders for 9mm.
I typically use Titegroup for 9mm but plenty of other pistol powders will work.

When you get a break from school come out to my place and you can try some of my loads over the chrony, I may have a better choice for powder that I'd trade you for a pound of your 4895 :p
 
there was a chart I found a few years ago with various 9mm ammo in short carry pistols, regular duty pistols and carbines. There was a CLEAR difference in EVERY powder and bullet weight with shorter and longer barrels. possibly over 1000 ft/second from the short barrels to the carbines with certain powders. That is nothing to sneeze at. IIRC I saw 1850 with one kind of expensive duty ammo(Cor-bon?) out of a carbine with a 16" tube or so. Some of the short carry guns with 3" tubes were showing under 1000, some by a fair amount.

I am working up some loads and with HS-6. I haven't gone to +P or anything yet, but max loads with this powder, I am seeing approx. 500f/sec better out of my Beretta Storm 18.5" barrel over my SR9 with its short tube. I have a Magnetospeed Chronograph too, so its fairly good.

If I use faster powder (Titegroup etc) the difference isn't as great, but it does still show up.
 
I loaded up some 115gr campro's over 4.5 gr of titegroup, a start load in my manual. 16" Carbine gave me an average of 1400fps where a 4.25 Glock only 1140fps.
I am going to work up a lighter load for the carbine now.
 
JR Hartman said:
there was a chart I found a few years ago with various 9mm ammo in short carry pistols, regular duty pistols and carbines. There was a CLEAR difference in EVERY powder and bullet weight with shorter and longer barrels. possibly over 1000 ft/second from the short barrels to the carbines with certain powders. That is nothing to sneeze at. IIRC I saw 1850 with one kind of expensive duty ammo(Cor-bon?) out of a carbine with a 16" tube or so. Some of the short carry guns with 3" tubes were showing under 1000, some by a fair amount.

I am working up some loads and with HS-6. I haven't gone to +P or anything yet, but max loads with this powder, I am seeing approx. 500f/sec better out of my Beretta Storm 18.5" barrel over my SR9 with its short tube. I have a Magnetospeed Chronograph too, so its fairly good.

If I use faster powder (Titegroup etc) the difference isn't as great, but it does still show up.
Click to expand...

You mean this chart?

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html

At best you're looking at a 250fps increase going from 5" to 18" barrel.
If you look at 3" barreled pistols there's a much a larger jump but that to me is kind of useless since those barrel lengths are so inefficient with a 9mm anyway. Also prohib so totally irrelevant to me.

If you're getting a 500fps increase from a 4.5" to an 18.5" I'm surprised.

As for maximizing velocity out of a carbine I find it to be pointless unless you're hunting with a non-restricted 9mm. If you're punching paper or pinging gongs it doesn't matter. I've been tempted with the thought of trying to get a deer with a 9mm but I've never looked into it seriously.
 
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LUTNIT said:
You mean this chart?

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html



At best you're looking at a 250fps increase going from 5" to 18" barrel.
If you look at 3" barreled pistols there's a much a larger jump but that to me is kind of useless since those barrel lengths are so inefficient with a 9mm anyway. Also prohib so totally irrelevant to me.

If you're getting a 500fps increase from a 4.5" to an 18.5" I'm surprised.

As for maximizing velocity out of a carbine I find it to be pointless unless you're hunting with a non-restricted 9mm. If you're punching paper or pinging gongs it doesn't matter. I've been tempted with the thought of trying to get a deer with a 9mm but I've never looked into it seriously.
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yea that's the chart. I was just going by memory. And yea the biggest numbers were with that 90grn projectile. I didn't see(or remember) that projectile when I saw it a few years back.

I should clarify. that's from HS-6 in the carbine to Titegroup in the pistol, and its not exactly 500. I'd have to either find the data or run the tests again, but I know it was over 400 for sure. I'd like to find some of those 90grn projectiles. I'd like to see if I could work up a 2000fps +P load.

I don't hunt with mine, but it certainly could be used for that for varmints or small predators. Also for paper and steel, at longer ranges the trajectory is significantly flatter with the extra muzzle velocity. 18.5" non restricted CX4 Storm. Drop is much nicer and easier to see/calculate in your head, Kentucky windage style.
 
I’m trying out some soft loads pushing powdercoated round nose 130gr down at 3.2gr of Titegroup . My FX-9 cycles them well after it got broken in with some commercial 115gr loads. My goal is to get it and the G17 Glock reliably cycling on the same load and still make power factor for IDPA. Although I have yet to shoot pcc class in IDPA .

Hopefully I will be able to run the same loads in Tac Rifle where both firearms will be shot in the same course of fire. If that works out the real challenge will be to figure out the “ lob ratio “ ( not a technical term ) for the stage that includes targets out to 150-200yds. That’s where I’m promised the pcc guys will fall behind.
 
3gr Titegroup for 148gr powder coated round nose. Also works well on a 124gr copper plated RN both in my FX9 and PSA.
 
JR Hartman said:
yea that's the chart. I was just going by memory. And yea the biggest numbers were with that 90grn projectile. I didn't see(or remember) that projectile when I saw it a few years back.

I should clarify. that's from HS-6 in the carbine to Titegroup in the pistol, and its not exactly 500. I'd have to either find the data or run the tests again, but I know it was over 400 for sure. I'd like to find some of those 90grn projectiles. I'd like to see if I could work up a 2000fps +P load.

I don't hunt with mine, but it certainly could be used for that for varmints or small predators. Also for paper and steel, at longer ranges the trajectory is significantly flatter with the extra muzzle velocity. 18.5" non restricted CX4 Storm. Drop is much nicer and easier to see/calculate in your head, Kentucky windage style.
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What do you consider "longer ranges"? Over 100 yards?

have you looked at a ballistic program to compare, say, 90 gr to 147gn? I would assume that the 90 gn bullet would shed velocity so fast that it would have a poor trajectory.

For max velocity in a carbine, I would look at 3N37, 3N38, Universal or HS6 (same powders I use for velocity in a pistol).
 
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I did a quick check on the ballistics of a 90 gn bullet vs a 147 gn bullet at both pistol and carbine velocities.

At 100 yards the light bullet is about 2" flatter than the heavy (in both pistol and carbine).

At 200 yards the drop is about the same for both weights out of the pistol. In the carbine, the lighter bullet is 6" flatter, but the light bullet has 178 ft lb compared to 337 in the heavy bullet.

In all platforms, the light bullet loses speed quickly and at 100 yards the velocity of 90 gn and 147 gn is about the same.

If you want some performance out of the carbine, load a heavy bullet with Universal or 3N38.
 
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