9mm +p

Not a good idea but doable.
You'll have to find powder that can give you high bullet velocity and low pressure at the same time to be safe. Hodgdon has data that can be used in research. For example HS-6 and Longshot are such powders.
Research Power Factor and Muzzle Energy too.
 
why

Because 2 months ago in my home country, I was force to defend myself, and that day I discover the ammo CAVIM, the more economic you will find there (50 $ FOR A BOX OF 40) its very weak, down there a box of Carbon o winchester silvertip will cost you between 100 to 300 $ that's to much, about the damage to the gun who cares, its just a gun , thanks:)
 
Standard pressure 9mm provides sufficient velocity for reliable expansion of properly designed bullets.
 
LONGHOT, VHIT.3N37. VHIT N350 AND VHIT.n105 CAN BE use if looking for 1300 to 1400 fps 124 gr. bullet for 9mm, a +p+ is somwhere 1280fps
 
Would you not be able to reload to normal pressures and still get the desired effect? Reloads at the proper pressure with a proper chosen bullet sound like they would be better than your purchasing options.
 
When I started reloading 11 years ago, with in a year I started overloading 9mm to see what would happen.
I put in lots of hours filling in a spread sheet with every bullet and every powder working up loads until the case was full or something bad happened.

For 40 years my father was a chief engineer of a military gun and vehicle designing engineering department of 150 engineers and draftsmen. He has dozens of gun patents.
He was disgusted with me for being so destructive to guns, until I showed him the documentation. He is related to me, and thus more open minded about accepting my behavior. I expect fully 50% of other engineers to condemn my handloading behavior as dangerous and not per procedures. They also reacted that way to me blowing up transistors, diodes, and capacitors, until it was formalized into HAST [highly accelerated stress test].

The hottest book load is the old Vihtavuori One load book for 147 gr and 3N37 that makes the majors.
Load books resemble reality loosely, and that is a hot load, but nothing compared to what is possible with 158 gr, a throated chamber, resized loaded ammo, and compressed Power Pistol.

9mm pistols typically have a feed ramp intrusion of 0.19" into the chamber.
9mm brass has a 0.16" thick web.
That leaves .03" of thin unsupported case wall that is ~ 0.015" thick.
This is so much better than a typical 45acp or 40 S&W that lawyered up corporations are willing to sell 9mm +P+ factory ammo.
And 9mm +P+ is wimpy, compared to what can be handloaded for such good case support.

The limiting problem 9mm work ups is not blowing up, but recoil spring sizing.
If the ammo is too wimpy for the recoil spring, the slide does not go back far enough and there is a stove pipe jam, or with very wimpy ammo, failure to extract.

If the ammo is too hot for the recoil spring, the case is ejected fast and far. The recoil spring does not store the energy in the slide and the slide slams into the frame. The frame can take some of this extra energy hit and so can the hand. But if more and more powder is added, the pain starts to be a problem.

If the recoil spring force is increased, more powder can be added.
This is like the real guns article from 1999 about 45 Super for $8 parts I, II, and III. http://www.realguns.com/archives/020.htm

The forward momentum of the bullet and gas does not all show up in reward motion of the slide and barrel. If the problem is approached that way, ~ half the energy will be missing. The hand and forearm are accelerated, which uses up half the energy. There is then no explicit solution for recoil springs, they must be sized empirically.

But when the recoil spring force is increased too much, the magazine spring cannot push up a round fast enough to keep up with the slide forward acceleration. The chamber comes up empty. The magazine spring can be doubled, but that reduces the magazine capacity by at least one, and makes loading the magazine unpleasant for the thumb.

I have a Glock 19 9mm pistol that I have replaced the recoil spring with a 48 pound triple recoil spring assembly. I have two magazine springs in parallel. The slide is too fast for the trigger to reset, so I have a "New York" trigger that resets faster.

A little girl could pull with 48 pounds, but it takes a strong man to grip a pistol slide hard enough to not slip when pulling with 48 pounds of force to chamber a round.

How hot can the ammo be loaded for a 9mm pistol with 48 pound recoil spring and still have the cases not eject too far?
+P++++++

And yet I can handload ammo for the typical 9mm barrel with .19" intrusion up to +P+++++++++++++++ levels and not have guppy belly problems or primer piercing problems or lose primer pocket problems or split the chamber problems.

What does it all mean?
If you want to shoot hotter and hotter 9mm handloads, ultimately you may need a heavier slide or your pistol, hand bones, and nerves may suffer.
 
Last edited:
Clark said:
When I started reloading 11 years ago, with in a year I started overloading 9mm to see what would happen.
I put in lots of hours filling in a spread sheet with every bullet and every powder working up loads until the case was full or something bad happened.

For 40 years my father was a chief engineer of a military gun and vehicle designing engineering department of 150 engineers and draftsmen. He has dozens of gun patents.
He was disgusted with me for being so destructive to guns, until I showed him the documentation. He is related to me, and thus more open minded about accepting my behavior. I expect fully 50% of other engineers to condemn my handloading behavior as dangerous and not per procedures. They also reacted that way to me blowing up transistors, diodes, and capacitors, until it was formalized into HAST [highly accelerated stress test].

The hottest book load is the old Vihtavuori One load book for 147 gr and 3N37 that makes the majors.
Load books resemble reality loosely, and that is a hot load, but nothing compared to what is possible with 158 gr, a throated chamber, resized loaded ammo, and compressed Power Pistol.

9mm pistols typically have a feed ramp intrusion of 0.19" into the chamber.
9mm brass has a 0.16" thick web.
That leaves .03" of thin unsupported case wall that is ~ 0.015" thick.
This is so much better than a typical 45acp or 40 S&W that lawyered up corporations are willing to sell 9mm +P+ factory ammo.
And 9mm +P+ is wimpy, compared to what can be handloaded for such good case support.

The limiting problem 9mm work ups is not blowing up, but recoil spring sizing.
If the ammo is too wimpy for the recoil spring, the slide does not go back far enough and there is a stove pipe jam, or with very wimpy ammo, failure to extract.

If the ammo is too hot for the recoil spring, the case is ejected fast and far. The recoil spring does not store the energy in the slide and the slide slams into the frame. The frame can take some of this extra energy hit and so can the hand. But if more and more powder is added, the pain starts to be a problem.

If the recoil spring force is increased, more powder can be added.
This is like the real guns article from 1999 about 45 Super for $8 parts I, II, and III. http://www.realguns.com/archives/020.htm

The forward momentum of the bullet and gas does not all show up in reward motion of the slide and barrel. If the problem is approached that way, ~ half the energy will be missing. The hand and forearm are accelerated, which uses up half the energy. There is then no explicit solution for recoil springs, they must be sized empirically.

But when the recoil spring force is increased too much, the magazine spring cannot push up a round fast enough to keep up with the slide forward acceleration. The chamber comes up empty. The magazine spring can be doubled, but that reduces the magazine capacity by at least one, and makes loading the magazine unpleasant for the thumb.

I have a Glock 19 9mm pistol that I have replaced the recoil spring with a 48 pound triple recoil spring assembly. I have two magazine springs in parallel. The slide is too fast for the trigger to reset, so I have a "New York" trigger that resets faster.

A little girl could pull with 48 pounds, but it takes a strong man to grip a pistol slide hard enough to not slip when pulling with 48 pounds of force to chamber a round.

How hot can the ammo be loaded for a 9mm pistol with 48 pound recoil spring and still have the cases not eject too far?
+P++++++

And yet I can handload ammo for the typical 9mm barrel with .19" intrusion up to +P+++++++++++++++ levels and not have guppy belly problems or primer piercing problems or lose primer pocket problems or split the chamber problems.

What does it all mean?
If you want to shoot hotter and hotter 9mm handloads, ultimately you may need a heavier slide or your pistol, hand bones, and nerves may suffer.
Click to expand...

Hmm, interesting. What grain bullet are you using at what velocity?
 
Stampy said:
Hmm, interesting. What grain bullet are you using at what velocity?
Click to expand...

I shot 3 chronographs with handguns as soon as I got the chronographs.
Now I only shoot rifles over my chronograph.
It has now lasted 4 years.

But I did get a little handguns data:
Hot handload: 380, 5" barrel, 8.5 gr Power Pistol, 158 gr XTP, 1.090", 1158, 1187 fps
Factory ammo: 380, 5" barrel, Winchester ammo 95 gr. 805 fps

The hot handload I have found for 9mm is 158 gr 11 gr Power Pistol 1.169", but I have not chronograhed it.

The hot handload for 9x23mm is 16 gr Power Pistol 158 gr 1.3", but I have not chronographed it.
 
joseaventurero said:
MR Clark very nice , can I push 125 g lead 9mm or have to be fmj I ask because thats what I have back home, also the powder I have its titegroup:D
Click to expand...

You can, however it's going to depend on the quality of the bullets.
I was playing around with 125gr lead for major pf this summer.
Vit n350
9 shots with the average at 1368fps
Longshot
9 shots with the average at 1320fps

What i found was that as velocity increases, accuracy decreases with lead.
Not so with jacketed. I am also shooting an open pistol, and would never put this ammo through any regular pistol(production) your asking for trouble.
 
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