9x21 info needed

[IM_Lugger]

My Lee 9mm dies can also be used to load 9x21, now is that the same as .38 super? Or .38 super same as 9x23? Or they have both nothing to do with .38 supper :?

Any info on the 9x21 or 9x23 is appreciated.




Btw I do understand that 19/21/23 numbers are the case length...

 

[hungrybeagle]

9x21 is not 38 super.

38 super is not 9x23.

38 super is pretty close to the same size as 9x23, but is different in a couple of ways.

38 super is a straight walled case with a semi-rim (the rim is not flush with the sides of the case, it instead sticks out a little bit).

38 super comp is like the 38 super, but the rim IS flush with the sides of the case.

9x23 is a tapered case with a rim that is flush with the sides of the case.

 

[BEARMAN]

Do a www.dogpile.com search of ( 9x21 ammunition ) and ( 9x23 ammunition ) the 9 x23 is .38 super without the .38 super's semi-rim on the cartridge. The 9x21 is the european 9mm LARGO with MAYBE a 9x19 ( 9mm LUGER) load in it, it maybe loaded a little hotter also.. The x19 , x21, and x23 are the case length in mm.

 

[RePete]

PM sent.

RePete.

 

[FN]

 

[IM_Lugger]

are you coming on to me? :shock:

 

[Mr.T]

My Lee 9mm dies can also be used to load 9x21, now is that the same as .38 super? Or .38 super same as 9x23? Or they have both nothing to do with .38 supper :?

Any info on the 9x21 or 9x23 is appreciated.




Btw I do understand that 19/21/23 numbers are the case length...

9x21mm is found in countries where LE/Military calibers are banned for civilians. Italy and Brazil are two examples. Specs are almost the same.

 

[IM_Lugger]

that's what I thought meself....

 

[Janeau]

9X21 was designed by Italian to go over the military ammunition ban. It was picked up by Springfield in the P9 and Tanfoglio ( EAA ) as a basis for IPSC Open gun.

This is very easy to reload and perform like a champ. The best brass is Tanfoglio, Winchester,CP Bullet and then Starline in this order. Out of my open guns, competition framed EAA Witness, you could easily get a 124 grain bullet out at 1450-1480 FPS. Small Rifle primer are needed at those speed. For fully supported chamber only.
Lots a gas and compensators are very effective. You do not loose the dot in a CMore . Very fast.
Choice of powder is critical as is OAL.

The only drawback is case life - 2 reload if lucky 4 times and the primer pocket are gone. You also need a good firing pin - titanium or Stainless Steel.

This is a better alternative than 9 major.

If you need more than this and have the proper chambered gun, I have some new brass left and reloading data. PM me for details.

 

[cybershooters]

I think it should be noted that the official CIP loading spec for 9x21 is identical to 9x19. People use it for IPSC because you can cram more powder into the case, but technically speaking it wasn't intended to be used that way.

It wasn't designed by the Italians, by the way, it was designed by IMI so they could sell the Uzi carbine in France, because military calibres are licensed in France and they had the bright idea of making a non-military calibre so the Uzi carbine wouldn't need a license. However, that lasted about four months and then the French Government reclassified it as a military calibre!

After that, then the Italians picked up on it and started chambering a lot of guns in it. Prior to that everything had been chambered in 7.65mm Para instead.

If you look in some cartridge books, it's listed as "9x21 IMI" because they invented it.

 

[Janeau]

The 9X21 was developped by both IMI and Tanfoglio.
To know more on 9mm and the 9X21mm, refer to this link :

http://p201.ezboard.com/fczechpistols82792frm25.showMessage?topicID=119.topic

The version we are talking about here, is the North American introduction wich is almost exclusively used for IPSC. There is no SAMI specs for it and was not offered as loaded ammunition (N.A.) Tanfoglio is the company that made enough brass and guns to make it popular.
If loaded like a 9x19, it will be useless for IPSC purpose. Remember that was before the reduction in power factor.
The original brass imported on those shore were Tanfoglio, imported by EAA.
Never heard or seen any IMI 9x21 brass on this continent.

9x19 major is looking for trouble, will be safer to go strait to 9x21. Like the 9X23, 38 Supercomp and new 38 Super brass, the 9X21 brass is stonger in the head area. Better choice for high pressure load. On top of this, the 9X21 was and is still used in race gun and is a very effective round for providing enough gazes to make comp work.

The best brass to build a gun on is the 9X23 Winchester, the only 9mm brass rated at 55 000 PSI. Commercial ammo is loaded to equal .357 magnum level with a 125 grain bullet.