9x23mm Steyr surplus ammo availability ?

Nabs

Nabs

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Hello CGN,

I know this post should be in the pistols forum but I figured it would be best suited to the milsurp forum.

A few months ago, I picked up a beautiful Chilean contract example from a very good friend of mine here on CGN and she begs to go to the range. She is in 9x23mm Steyr and I read online that there is 1930s surplus ammo that can be found made by GECO, DWM, or RWS in 50 rd packets. I have to admit that all of the internet sources appear to be U.S. in origin.

Has anyone seen these 50 rd packets before ? Are they common now or considered collector pieces ? I read they are non-corrosive but the casings are berdan primed so no real chance of saving the brass or using any I find.

On a side note, I also read that Fiochhi was making some 9mm Steyr ammo but I can't seem to find it anywhere in Canada. Has anyone seen these anywhere ?

One thing I have have seen is that Ellwood Epps has "9x21 Steyr" ammo on 16 rd stripper clips. I haven't heard of 9x21 Steyr before, could this be a typo ? I was going to call Epps this week to confirm if it is 9x21 or not as I don't live far from them and can pick it up if need be.

Thank you for the help CGN, I hope we can make this Steyr Hahn sing at the range very soon :).
 
Fiocchi is still making the stuff, Nabs, but the supply here seems to be awfully thin and cardiac-expensive. Canada Ammo lists it at $46 box but they are out of stock on just about everything interesting.... and this is definitely interesting.

The brass can be made very easily from .38 Super: just turn down the rim to Base diameter, 1 stroke with a file to bevel the edge a bit and you're home.

You can load it with Super dies.

I made my first batch out of blown-out and shortened .223 brass. If you go that route, you MUST drop the charge or pressures will go sky-high.

Good luck!
 
I disremember the company I aquired it from but Hornady unprimed brass is out there.
I'd think Nabs would have the skill to reload it. I used 9 X 19mm carbide dies (skip the sizing die, will revisit this).
Short stroke the press when seating the bullet ( standard 9mm fodder works; use a standard 9 X 19 charge too) and when done run the charged and seated rds through a .357 magnum sizing die.
Works slick.
7.62 X 25mm clips for charging PPSH's work so-so, IIRC they are a tad wide for the rim.
I'll have a look and perhaps I can find the outfit I acquired it from.
Mayhaps submit a post in the reloading forum and perhaps the helpful member who steered me in the right direction will see and shoot you a PM.
I can spare a few unprimed rds but forgive me for being frugal, it's precious rare.
BTW mine ejects almost straight over my head. Almost want to put a tarp over the shooting station occupied at the range to facilitate brass recovery, LOL
Good luck and stay safe
 
In my experience 9mm Steyr is one of the easiest oddballs to find ammo for at gun shows.... I've got tons of Geco for mine in both 16 round packets on clips and 50 round boxes sans clips.
 
Hi guys,

Thanks for the advice. I do have 9mm Steyr stripper clips but I don't have any reloading supplies so I will have to acquire them again. It looks like I'll have to attend as many gun shows as I can, hopefully I'll stumble across some 9mm Steyr surplus ammo :).
 
9x23 destroyer ammo will also work in those that's the ammo for the lil Spanish destroyer rifle. 9x23 bergman I think it was called. starline makes that brass aswell
 
I have a chilean steyr too....I bought 2 boxes from canada ammo ($100)..... In the 4-5? years Ive had it I have found one box of 16 on strippers... never heard of the 9x23 bergman... gotta look that up now.... but Ive heard that 9mm largo? is possibly usable... Nabs, If you find anything, let me know, and vice versa.....
 
There is a guy out west (eagle trading post? I could be wrong, Its in the acess to firearms paper) That is a fiochhi distributer. I called him once, He has it, but seemed unwilling to ship it.. (guess he does all his business at gun shows) That was a while ago.....
 
Hi guys,

I read online that 9mm Largo and Bergmann are higher pressures than 9mm Steyr and will damage a Steyr Hahn.

There is a gunshow in Woodstock, ON. this coming weekend so I will try my first bit of searching there.
 
The Largo cartridge is also the Bergmann-Bayard cartridge. "Largo" is just Spanish for "big", as opposed to the little dinky 9mm Browning Short (9x17) and the 9mm Browning Long (9x18) which were on the go at the same time.

I have a Water Pistol (Astra 400) and it will eat almost anything that looks like ammunition. The barrel is actually marked for 9mm AND .38 ACP (the original light load which later became the Super).

I also own the 1911 Steyr pistol and I can say that it eats 9mm STEYR and that is ALL it eats.

RIMS on the Largo and the Luger (and the Mauser Export if you want to go that far.... and the Winchester Magnum and the Winchester 9x23) all are .392", rim on the Steyr is .380". That's only 12 thou, but that is enough to mess you around. There WERE a bunch of Steyrs converted during War Two to use the Luger cartridge; these guns are marked "08" on the slide and on the frame. Those Czech clips you find with 9mm Para and 7.62 Tok ammo in them will fit the original GUN, but not the original AMMO. They do work fine in a converted gun, though.

The Chilean guns escaped all of this and are in the original cartridge.

The Steyr cartridge will work in the Largo GUNS, but NOT the other way around; it is a one-way intrchangeability.

Proper dimensions for the Steyr cartridge are Rim and Base both of .380", Mouth of .375". It actually has 5 thou of taper. It was designed by George Roth, who specialised in high-intensity loads for pistol ammunition. His original company is now part of Hirtenberger Patronenfabrik. It is a very hot round for its size; original loadings went up to 420 ft/lbs ME. Compare that to 220 for the bigger .38 Special from the same period.

EASIEST way to fake the Steyr round is exactly as I have said: mod the rims on .38 Super and load with .38 Special or Super dies. Works fine. I have been doing it for over 30 years.

The rim modifications can be done in a Lathe or with an electric drill. Chuck the casing in nd go to town. With a drill, you can use a file on the rim until it is down to BASE diameter, then one swipe with the file to bevel the rim just enough for the extractor to slip over easily. It is a very easy conversion. You don't trim at all because Super is already the right length. Now you know whet to do with all thet Super brass the rich IPSC guys leave littering the range! Get a Steyr and have fun!

Luger charges are a bit light for the Steyr but will work just fine; the Steyr pistol is wonderfully tolerant of ammunition variations. This is due to that strange torque-locked rotating-barrel design. The more powerful the ammo, the tighter it locks up.

This keebord is acting up nd ma fingers r sore.

Hope this helps.
 
Hey smellie,

Thank you for the information, are .38 special or .38 super dies common to find ? The reloading information is greatly appreciated, that will work hand loading for the Steyr hahn alot easier.
 
Dies for the .38 Special are a drug on the market. For 40 years they were the Number 1 seller...... then everybody stopped using 38 Special. You can find the dies at any gun show for $20 or so.

Right now I am rooting through buckets of brass. I have about 800 Supers here somewhere..... and nothing to use them in. Might load up a few for the Water Pistol, then mod another betch for my Steyr.

Love that ugly old gun! So ugly it has CLASS.

Nabs, did you know that the Kaiserlich-und-Koenigliche Austro-Hungarian Army hired Frans LEHAR to write marches for them? Yep! Google a recording of "Ljuk Ljuk": only march I know that you can dance to, even if you don't have any Gypsy in the family!
 
Very interesting, I read that Steyr-Hahns were second to the Roth-Steyr as this was considered the primary service pistol of the Austro-Hungarian forces. I haven't seen one for sale but I would love to handle one in the near future.
 
Highly unlikely you'll find real surplus ammo. It's a W.W. I Austrian cartridge.
"...don't have any reloading supplies..." Dies are very likely a $pecial order thing. Most likely the same shell holder as the 9mm Parabellum. Case head diameter is only 12 thou smaller. Same bullet. Proper load data might be an issue, but Parabellum data may do. Loaddata.com has one load using Unique. Gotta pay for it though. Site says any 9mm Parabellum or .38 Auto load will work fine.
"...is a Fiocchi distributer..." More likely just a retailer. Makes no difference if he won't ship.
"...9x23 bergman..." Bergman-Bayard perhaps?
 
...don't have any reloading supplies..." Dies are very likely a $pecial order thing. Most likely the same shell holder as the 9mm Parabellum. Case head diameter is only 12 thou smaller. Same bullet. Proper load data might be an issue, but Parabellum data may do. Loaddata.com has one load using Unique. Gotta pay for it though. Site says any 9mm Parabellum or .38 Auto load will work fine.

I've probably shot mine several hundred times.
As I stated, I use 9 X 19 Lee dies ( and holder IIRC)and finish with a 357 magnum sizing die minus the de-capping pin.
With virgin brass they still would not chamber. Use a 9mm parabelum medium charge and short stroke the seating die til the bullet is seated properly, it'll take a crimp and hold the bullet in place.
Lube it up good and run it through the 357 sizing die.
Works slick and no I didn't come up with it; a helpful CGN'r PM'd me with help, that's why I'm posting this...to pass on the help.
115 gr FMJ's are nicer to shoot.
The grip angle throws a funny recoil impulse at you, which I find is best handled by relaxing your elbow somewhat and letting the pistol rise somewhat like a Colt SAA.
Seriously guys; 9 X 19 dies, 9mm bullets and a set of 357 mag dies ( or as Smellie says '38 special is popular'). Go to the range forearmed with the knowledge it'll kick them high over your head and slightly to the right.
I used 5 or 6 grs of Unique IIRC.
 
tokguy, thank you for sharing your information. I will copy the list down and start hunting for those supplies at the Woodstock gun show this weekend.
 
Nyles said:
9 x 23 Winchester is also a different round. Much higher pressure.
Click to expand...


I bought a couple of boxes of the Winchester 9x23 a few years ago. I shot it all out of my Destroyer. It worked well and was accurate. I then loaded it up to similar pressures and shot it out of a Roth Steyr. No issues at all that were evident.

The pistol is gone but I still have the Destroyer and it gobbles them up no problem either. I also converted a Destroyer in nasty condition to 7.62 x 25. It has digested close to 3000 rounds of the hot Czeck stuff.

The Destroyers bolt faces didn't have to be altered either and neither did the Roth Steyr pistol. Maybe I missed something or the pistol had already been modified.
 
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