Howdy all SR competitors....
Lately there has been a whack of discussion and rumours and remarks about space guns (good , bad or indifferent). Here is a copy of the text received from the DCRA's very own Service Rifle Chair; Keith Cunningham:
What‟s a Space Gun… Seriously… What is a Space Gun…??
I'm the Chairman of the DCRA‟s National Service Conditions Championship (NSCC). As such I have a group of experienced shooters from all across Canada from whom I get suggestions and thoughts. From these I make decisions on how the next year‟s NSCC will look and since I‟m also the CRO, I have a good understanding of the resources and personnel available from the DCRA to run these matches. Any decision made will have a „downstream‟ effect which must always be considered. This and the desire to keep marksmanship skills the driving force behind it, is my motivation to keep NSCC on its current course. I‟m also a gunsmith and have a successful business training marksmanship skills.
When I first took over this position with NSCC, there was controversy over the use of so-called “space guns”. Whenever I ask, “Just what is a space gun?” I get some responses that at times leave me shaking my head in wonderment.
I recently read comments on GunNutz indicating there are those who are just wrong, those who should know better and those who are listening to both sides. I probably have more experience than most in this game and thought maybe I could clear things up a bit. I‟d hate to see someone not get involved with this type of shooting because they had the wrong impression of what is really going on out there.
I have been accused of shooting a “space gun” and thought the best place to start would be to describe what I shoot. I started with a factory AR15 made by Colt. For many years I shot it as is and, in fact, won some ORA Service Rifle championships and NSCC matches. Once the barrel was shot out I replaced it with a stainless steel match grade barrel from Armalite. It was a drop-in and cost me $250.00. Later I installed a match trigger. I wished I hadn‟t bothered with the trigger because what we were then doing with the issue C7 triggers produced a smooth pull at 6 pounds. It cost the most of any of the add-on parts and in the end wasn‟t worth it. (Throughout this time I was in the CF and shooting an FN and later a C7 on unit rifle teams.) I also installed the Hogue float tube forestock. It was about $60-$70 and was cheaper than the float tube forestock that looked like an issue one. The scope I used was the Leupold Police Special which cost me about
$500. For the past few years I‟ve been using the Nightforce tactical scope which costs about as much as an Elcan. There are several scopes out there that will do the job all the way back to 500 meters and cost about $300.00.
In the end what really made the difference was the barrel. A Chrome-lined barrel doesn‟t shoot as well as a stainless steel barrel. This showed up when Linda and I were hired to coach a CF team to Bisley. We test-fired all the rifles to be used by the team members. First we fired a 10-shot group through my rifle to see what we could expect from the issue ammo. This group was 1.5 inches (10 shots at 100 meters). Then, in turn, we put a Leupold scope on each C7 and fired a 10-shot group. We did this with about 40 rifles and the average group was slightly bigger than 3 inches. We kept the rifles that shot 3 inches or less. The key difference between my rifle and the C7s was the barrel.
If we look at the cost of an upgraded rifle we have to take out the cost of the base rifle and the sight – you need these no matter what you shoot. So if you want to improve your current AR, all you have to do is change the barrel for one that‟s not chrome lined. So is this all you have to do to make a space gun? The point here is, it doesn‟t take $3000.00, as some have said, to improve the capabilities of your AR. It takes a barrel and a float tube forestock.
Another term thrown around is, “We have to stop the arms race”. As near as I can tell this is an attempt to paint a picture which will cause the uninformed to think in a particular direction. There are only two things on the range these days which are expensive: one is the Swiss Arms rifle and the other is the Elcan scope. You simply don‟t need either to be competitive at NSCC. So where‟s the “arms race”? I challenge those who like to use this term, to point specifically at what they are calling an “arms race”. I want to know exactly what they are referring to.
A couple of the PRAs are using the rule, “The rifle must have the outward appearance of a service rifle” (or words to this effect). This is the biggest sham going!! It intentionally leads the uninformed in one direction while still allowing what they claim to be against. On the one hand they will almost arrogantly state they don‟t allow “space guns”, the outward appearance must look like a service rifle. Yet the same rule allows the inside of the rifle to be whatever you want.
The US has been for years shooting their “Across the Course Service Rifle” matches using this same rule. They build a rifle which has the outward appearance of a service rifle but inside, where it makes the only difference, there is a match grade stainless steel barrel. I have personally made several of these rifles for Canadians wanting to go to the States to shoot in these matches. So if I was going to shoot in the PRAs who have this same rule, I would use my own so-called “space gun”, put on a float tube forestock that looks like an issue one on the outside and be legal in these matches that don‟t allow “space guns”. So maybe a “space gun” is one that doesn‟t look like an issue service rifle on the outside because apparently what‟s on the inside doesn‟t constitute a “space gun”.
One of the PRAs who have recently been very loud about “no more space guns” recently had one of their members show up at a course we were conducting. He was very proud of his rifle which was a very expensive “Across the Course” rifle. I asked him if he shot this rifle at this PRA‟s Service Rifle matches. He assured me he had several times. The PRA‟s just don‟t know what‟s “under the covers”, so they don‟t know when someone brings a “space gun in service rifle‟s clothing”. This experience just makes the point I have been arguing for many years and why NSCC allows you to bring what you want to shoot. You can‟t enforce it; so why try? At NSCC, you don‟t have to go the extra expense of hiding your stainless steel barrel inside the outward appearance of a service rifle.
Do you really need a rifle with a better barrel to be competitive? Well, a look at the stats over the past 30 years will show you an FNC1 or a C7 in the hands of soldiers or a sailor has won NSCC more often than a “space gun”. It‟s only been the past few years that civilians have been winning. Why is that, do you suppose?
Well, it has everything to do with training. Back in the days when the military teams were doing serious training, working on the positions, it didn‟t matter if their rifle shot a slightly bigger group when the bullseye is 12 inches and you had to run before you shot. The soldiers were in better shape and could shoot the positions better. Since the CFSAC hiatus the level of marksmanship within the CF has diminished and the old shooters, who are now civilians and who were trained in the basic marksmanship skills, are now winning.
I competed in CFSAC and NSCC since 1976 and NSCC only, since 1996. I won NSCC (service rifle) in 2008 and 2009. I‟ve been shooting the same so called “space gun” since 1996 and have only won twice. Was this because I should have figured out how to spend $3000.00 on it or is it because it doesn‟t have the outward appearance of an issue rifle?
The actual answer here is because, prior to 2008, I resisted training the kneeling position. Match 8 calls for the kneeling position and is shot once in Stage 1 and again in Stage 2. My average score in this match was 25 to 30 points out of 50. This match cost me every Queen‟s Medal I didn‟t win and since I never won a QM, this was a lot of them. I decided if I wanted to eventually win a National Championship I needed to get a grip on this Match 8 kneeling position. So I trained it – I worked the kneeling specifically and suddenly I was scoring 40 to 45 in this match. And guess what? I won the National Service Rifle Championship for the first time. I kept practicing this match and won the championship again the following year. I came 2nd last year, again with the same rifle, and not because of Match 8 but because I fired two bad shots (only 2) in Match 2. Know what I‟m going to practice for this year??
Is a “space gun” one with a long and heavy barrel? We‟ve had a couple of those show up at NSCC. They didn‟t win much and soon were gone because they were too heavy and awkward to use in the positions. The match conditions seem to sort things out for us. We don‟t have to make broad sweeping statements we can‟t enforce. We don‟t need or use expensive equipment, just something we would like to take to a war.
Is a “space gun” one with a big and powerful scope sight? Again we have had some show up but they don‟t last long. They made the rifle top heavy and out of balance and you need field of view more than magnification. If it‟s not practical for operations it won‟t be practical for these matches.
Is a “space gun” one that shoots ½ MOA? Well, mine groups between 1 and 1¼ MOA. The ammo I use at NSCC is made up from surplus military ammo. I pull the bullet, measure the powder and put in all back together with a match grade bullet. It‟s not expensive. For training sessions or lesser matches, I just use the surplus military
ammo as is. I‟m practicing what I do at the firing point and this ammo will shoot well enough to give me feed back at the target end. If I do it right at my end, the rifle and ammo will take care of it at the target end.
Currently, at NSCC, all of the rifles being used would be considered logical and practical to take on operations. You have to be able to shoot back to 500 meters and 20 inch barrels do this better than do the 16 inch ones. You need a scope that will provide elevation and has sufficient field of view to pick up the snap targets. If you and your rifle can group around 1 MOA you can win every match there. The smallest V-bull is 1.5 MOA and the smallest bull is 3 MOA.
So I still don‟t know what a “space gun” is. In the end it doesn‟t matter because no one else does either. Come to NSCC with what you have and have fun. You will soon see it‟s the shooter that makes the difference. If you train, you will win something. If you train more you will win more. Say… maybe that‟s what a “space gun” is… someone who trains. I can understand why some individuals would be against someone who trains… it means they might have to do some work to win. It‟s so much easier to just blame the “space gun”.
“Amateurs talk about hardware (equipment), professionals talk about software (training and mental readiness).” – LtCol Dave Grossman, On Combat, p. 212
If you want information about coming to NSCC contact me directly or go on the DCRA website www.dcra.ca .
Keith Cunningham
Chairman National Service Conditions Championship
MilCun Training Center www.milcun.com
Home of the Operational Shooting Association (OSA) www.osacanada.ca
17 March 2011
Lately there has been a whack of discussion and rumours and remarks about space guns (good , bad or indifferent). Here is a copy of the text received from the DCRA's very own Service Rifle Chair; Keith Cunningham:
What‟s a Space Gun… Seriously… What is a Space Gun…??
I'm the Chairman of the DCRA‟s National Service Conditions Championship (NSCC). As such I have a group of experienced shooters from all across Canada from whom I get suggestions and thoughts. From these I make decisions on how the next year‟s NSCC will look and since I‟m also the CRO, I have a good understanding of the resources and personnel available from the DCRA to run these matches. Any decision made will have a „downstream‟ effect which must always be considered. This and the desire to keep marksmanship skills the driving force behind it, is my motivation to keep NSCC on its current course. I‟m also a gunsmith and have a successful business training marksmanship skills.
When I first took over this position with NSCC, there was controversy over the use of so-called “space guns”. Whenever I ask, “Just what is a space gun?” I get some responses that at times leave me shaking my head in wonderment.
I recently read comments on GunNutz indicating there are those who are just wrong, those who should know better and those who are listening to both sides. I probably have more experience than most in this game and thought maybe I could clear things up a bit. I‟d hate to see someone not get involved with this type of shooting because they had the wrong impression of what is really going on out there.
I have been accused of shooting a “space gun” and thought the best place to start would be to describe what I shoot. I started with a factory AR15 made by Colt. For many years I shot it as is and, in fact, won some ORA Service Rifle championships and NSCC matches. Once the barrel was shot out I replaced it with a stainless steel match grade barrel from Armalite. It was a drop-in and cost me $250.00. Later I installed a match trigger. I wished I hadn‟t bothered with the trigger because what we were then doing with the issue C7 triggers produced a smooth pull at 6 pounds. It cost the most of any of the add-on parts and in the end wasn‟t worth it. (Throughout this time I was in the CF and shooting an FN and later a C7 on unit rifle teams.) I also installed the Hogue float tube forestock. It was about $60-$70 and was cheaper than the float tube forestock that looked like an issue one. The scope I used was the Leupold Police Special which cost me about
$500. For the past few years I‟ve been using the Nightforce tactical scope which costs about as much as an Elcan. There are several scopes out there that will do the job all the way back to 500 meters and cost about $300.00.
In the end what really made the difference was the barrel. A Chrome-lined barrel doesn‟t shoot as well as a stainless steel barrel. This showed up when Linda and I were hired to coach a CF team to Bisley. We test-fired all the rifles to be used by the team members. First we fired a 10-shot group through my rifle to see what we could expect from the issue ammo. This group was 1.5 inches (10 shots at 100 meters). Then, in turn, we put a Leupold scope on each C7 and fired a 10-shot group. We did this with about 40 rifles and the average group was slightly bigger than 3 inches. We kept the rifles that shot 3 inches or less. The key difference between my rifle and the C7s was the barrel.
If we look at the cost of an upgraded rifle we have to take out the cost of the base rifle and the sight – you need these no matter what you shoot. So if you want to improve your current AR, all you have to do is change the barrel for one that‟s not chrome lined. So is this all you have to do to make a space gun? The point here is, it doesn‟t take $3000.00, as some have said, to improve the capabilities of your AR. It takes a barrel and a float tube forestock.
Another term thrown around is, “We have to stop the arms race”. As near as I can tell this is an attempt to paint a picture which will cause the uninformed to think in a particular direction. There are only two things on the range these days which are expensive: one is the Swiss Arms rifle and the other is the Elcan scope. You simply don‟t need either to be competitive at NSCC. So where‟s the “arms race”? I challenge those who like to use this term, to point specifically at what they are calling an “arms race”. I want to know exactly what they are referring to.
A couple of the PRAs are using the rule, “The rifle must have the outward appearance of a service rifle” (or words to this effect). This is the biggest sham going!! It intentionally leads the uninformed in one direction while still allowing what they claim to be against. On the one hand they will almost arrogantly state they don‟t allow “space guns”, the outward appearance must look like a service rifle. Yet the same rule allows the inside of the rifle to be whatever you want.
The US has been for years shooting their “Across the Course Service Rifle” matches using this same rule. They build a rifle which has the outward appearance of a service rifle but inside, where it makes the only difference, there is a match grade stainless steel barrel. I have personally made several of these rifles for Canadians wanting to go to the States to shoot in these matches. So if I was going to shoot in the PRAs who have this same rule, I would use my own so-called “space gun”, put on a float tube forestock that looks like an issue one on the outside and be legal in these matches that don‟t allow “space guns”. So maybe a “space gun” is one that doesn‟t look like an issue service rifle on the outside because apparently what‟s on the inside doesn‟t constitute a “space gun”.
One of the PRAs who have recently been very loud about “no more space guns” recently had one of their members show up at a course we were conducting. He was very proud of his rifle which was a very expensive “Across the Course” rifle. I asked him if he shot this rifle at this PRA‟s Service Rifle matches. He assured me he had several times. The PRA‟s just don‟t know what‟s “under the covers”, so they don‟t know when someone brings a “space gun in service rifle‟s clothing”. This experience just makes the point I have been arguing for many years and why NSCC allows you to bring what you want to shoot. You can‟t enforce it; so why try? At NSCC, you don‟t have to go the extra expense of hiding your stainless steel barrel inside the outward appearance of a service rifle.
Do you really need a rifle with a better barrel to be competitive? Well, a look at the stats over the past 30 years will show you an FNC1 or a C7 in the hands of soldiers or a sailor has won NSCC more often than a “space gun”. It‟s only been the past few years that civilians have been winning. Why is that, do you suppose?
Well, it has everything to do with training. Back in the days when the military teams were doing serious training, working on the positions, it didn‟t matter if their rifle shot a slightly bigger group when the bullseye is 12 inches and you had to run before you shot. The soldiers were in better shape and could shoot the positions better. Since the CFSAC hiatus the level of marksmanship within the CF has diminished and the old shooters, who are now civilians and who were trained in the basic marksmanship skills, are now winning.
I competed in CFSAC and NSCC since 1976 and NSCC only, since 1996. I won NSCC (service rifle) in 2008 and 2009. I‟ve been shooting the same so called “space gun” since 1996 and have only won twice. Was this because I should have figured out how to spend $3000.00 on it or is it because it doesn‟t have the outward appearance of an issue rifle?
The actual answer here is because, prior to 2008, I resisted training the kneeling position. Match 8 calls for the kneeling position and is shot once in Stage 1 and again in Stage 2. My average score in this match was 25 to 30 points out of 50. This match cost me every Queen‟s Medal I didn‟t win and since I never won a QM, this was a lot of them. I decided if I wanted to eventually win a National Championship I needed to get a grip on this Match 8 kneeling position. So I trained it – I worked the kneeling specifically and suddenly I was scoring 40 to 45 in this match. And guess what? I won the National Service Rifle Championship for the first time. I kept practicing this match and won the championship again the following year. I came 2nd last year, again with the same rifle, and not because of Match 8 but because I fired two bad shots (only 2) in Match 2. Know what I‟m going to practice for this year??
Is a “space gun” one with a long and heavy barrel? We‟ve had a couple of those show up at NSCC. They didn‟t win much and soon were gone because they were too heavy and awkward to use in the positions. The match conditions seem to sort things out for us. We don‟t have to make broad sweeping statements we can‟t enforce. We don‟t need or use expensive equipment, just something we would like to take to a war.
Is a “space gun” one with a big and powerful scope sight? Again we have had some show up but they don‟t last long. They made the rifle top heavy and out of balance and you need field of view more than magnification. If it‟s not practical for operations it won‟t be practical for these matches.
Is a “space gun” one that shoots ½ MOA? Well, mine groups between 1 and 1¼ MOA. The ammo I use at NSCC is made up from surplus military ammo. I pull the bullet, measure the powder and put in all back together with a match grade bullet. It‟s not expensive. For training sessions or lesser matches, I just use the surplus military
ammo as is. I‟m practicing what I do at the firing point and this ammo will shoot well enough to give me feed back at the target end. If I do it right at my end, the rifle and ammo will take care of it at the target end.
Currently, at NSCC, all of the rifles being used would be considered logical and practical to take on operations. You have to be able to shoot back to 500 meters and 20 inch barrels do this better than do the 16 inch ones. You need a scope that will provide elevation and has sufficient field of view to pick up the snap targets. If you and your rifle can group around 1 MOA you can win every match there. The smallest V-bull is 1.5 MOA and the smallest bull is 3 MOA.
So I still don‟t know what a “space gun” is. In the end it doesn‟t matter because no one else does either. Come to NSCC with what you have and have fun. You will soon see it‟s the shooter that makes the difference. If you train, you will win something. If you train more you will win more. Say… maybe that‟s what a “space gun” is… someone who trains. I can understand why some individuals would be against someone who trains… it means they might have to do some work to win. It‟s so much easier to just blame the “space gun”.
“Amateurs talk about hardware (equipment), professionals talk about software (training and mental readiness).” – LtCol Dave Grossman, On Combat, p. 212
If you want information about coming to NSCC contact me directly or go on the DCRA website www.dcra.ca .
Keith Cunningham
Chairman National Service Conditions Championship
MilCun Training Center www.milcun.com
Home of the Operational Shooting Association (OSA) www.osacanada.ca
17 March 2011
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anything about why civvies cannot shoot at CFSAC. That is not the issue. Let's commence a healthy discussion about the myths, truths, and realities of this favorite match that we dearly love.
