A gunsmith on Rem 870's & clones

ninepointer

ninepointer

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Had a conversation with my local gunsmith about the 870 clones. He says he won't sell them; doesn't need the hassle of upset customers needing gun repairs down the road. If you bought one elsewhere and bring it to him one to fix, he will politely give you the names of some other gunsmiths. In his words, "While Remington quality has certainly gone downhill, anything that might go wrong on a Remington 870 I can still fix for a price that's worth your while. I can't say the same about the Chinese knock-offs."
 
ninepointer said:
Had a conversation with my local gunsmith about the 870 clones. He says he won't sell them; doesn't need the hassle of upset customers needing gun repairs down the road. If you bought one elsewhere and bring it to him one to fix, he will politely give you the names of some other gunsmiths. In his words, "While Remington quality has certainly gone downhill, anything that might go wrong on a Remington 870 I can still fix for a price that's worth your while. I can't say the same about the Chinese knock-offs."
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:rolleyes:

i own both: some of the Chinese 870 clones are more robustly built and have better F&F than some recent 870 Expresses. theres less of a profit margin on them though, which is what i suspect is the real reason your local gun store owner doesnt sell them.

i heard a similar opinion from a gunsmith that said the Baikal MP 153 was cheap unsafe foreign junk, and tried to tell me that an 1187 that cost twice as much was a superior gun in every way :rolleyes:

a lot of gun store owners' opinions are heavily biased, and often self-serving. i think you are better off reading reviews (not in gun rags - here) and asking for opinions here on CGN - then weighing the pros/cons that apply to you personally and coming to your own decision on whether something is worth the money or not.
 
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I'm not an expert, but I do believe the quality of the chinese manufacturers has gone up dramatically. He might be referring to some of the early chi-com clones, or then again he might just be biased.
 
Owned a HP9-1 for a couple weeks, other than a problem with the feeding of a shell into the magazine tube there was nothing wrong with it. It was so much more robust then the 870 I own that you can probably smash the HP9-1 into the 870 and still fire it fine while breaking the 870.

A lot of people see "Made in China" and thing it is garbage. It is the case with most junk but not all. Just like seeing "Made in USA" doesn't mean it is good, probably junk (ie look at their cars).
 
ninepointer said:
Had a conversation with my local gunsmith about the 870 clones. He says he won't sell them; doesn't need the hassle of upset customers needing gun repairs down the road. If you bought one elsewhere and bring it to him one to fix, he will politely give you the names of some other gunsmiths. In his words, "While Remington quality has certainly gone downhill, anything that might go wrong on a Remington 870 I can still fix for a price that's worth your while. I can't say the same about the Chinese knock-offs."
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Let me tell you a story..........

A company that I do some work for sells the "chinese knock offs" and had one returned. A "gunsmith" told the customer that the problem was bad machining when in fact the problem was in the trigger group......

The moral of the story is that there is more bad "gunsmiths" out there than bad guns and just because some jacka$$ calls himself a gunsmith doesnt make it so.....
 
TBMH said:
Let me tell you a story..........

A company that I do some work for sells the "chinese knock offs" and had one returned. A "gunsmith" told the customer that the problem was bad machining when in fact the problem was in the trigger group......

The moral of the story is that there is more bad "gunsmiths" out there than bad guns and just because some jacka$$ calls himself a gunsmith doesnt make it so.....
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LOL it wasn't the trigger group! I spent hours switching out parts with 3 other 870. It was the left shell latch which a certain company replaced. I assume you speak of me anyways... I also had to bend my feed ramp out slightly on my HP-9. Other than that my only complaint about the knockoffs is the finish, and the fact they seem to be hit and miss for taking accessories. IMO there are certainly models to avoid. Anything Turkish and Norinco's "Homeland Security" shotgun come to mind.
 
B said:
LOL it wasn't the trigger group! It was the left shell latch which a certain company replaced. I also had to bend my feed ramp out slightly on my HP-9. Other than that my only complaint about the knockoffs is the finish.
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Different guy.......This was last week.

There is a lotta hacks out there.......
 
That is a bold OP considering the number of happy Chinese 870 clone owners there are here. You can compete on price or quality. The US is looking to lose market share due to losing ground on both.
 
I am in the process of seeing my Plant shut down due to outsourcing to China and Mexico. Anyone here ever concider the guy making 870's in the States at a decent wage seeing his livihood disappear because we insist on buying this cheap clone stuff. It's pretty hard to compete against a Mexican working for $1.25 p/h.This is the end result of price taking presidense over all else.

Sorry to be a little off topic but it is a rather sore spot with me right now.
 
219F said:
I am in the process of seeing my Plant shut down due to outsourcing to China and Mexico. Anyone here ever concider the guy making 870's in the States at a decent wage seeing his livihood disappear because we insist on buying this cheap clone stuff. It's pretty hard to compete against a Mexican working for $1.25 p/h.This is the end result of price taking presidense over all else.

Sorry to be a little off topic but it is a rather sore spot with me right now.
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i dont think the quality handcrafted or hand-finished stuff has anything to fear - only the cheap mass-produced items.
unfortunately America's answer to cheap Chinese mass-produced products is to produce cheap mass-produced products of their own. the 870 Express is a prime example.

look at knives: im willing to bet that most tactical knives made in China are touched by human hands far more often than most American tactical knives and their cookie-cutter production. at least most of the Chinese ones have an actual human being grind the scales/bolsters flush with the liners - American ones just leave the gap.
the only reason many people still buy American is because of better QC and better materials. there are modern, high-tech plants popping up in Taiwan and all over China. the moment they smarten up and realize that they could turn a much better profit on something if they spent a couple more bucks on materials and QC, America is #%@$ed.

patriotism goes only so far. if the end result is the same (same materials, same heat treat, same quality), then what it really comes down to is 'should i pay an American 10x as much money to push a button as a Chinaman'. with the economy in such a slump i dont think people will for much longer unless buying the American made product gives them some benefit other than chest-thumping patriotism.
 
I hear what your saying, people say a lot when they vote with their dollars. On the other side of the coin no one likes to take a bath on a comparable product just because of where it was made. It's hard to fault a consumer if they see quality in an 870 clone that saved them a $100.00

219F said:
I am in the process of seeing my Plant shut down due to outsourcing to China and Mexico. Anyone here ever concider the guy making 870's in the States at a decent wage seeing his livihood disappear because we insist on buying this cheap clone stuff. It's pretty hard to compete against a Mexican working for $1.25 p/h.This is the end result of price taking presidense over all else.

Sorry to be a little off topic but it is a rather sore spot with me right now.
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I remember when owning anything from Japan got you laughed at......hear anyone laughing now.
 
I always read these threads on Chinese stuff VS American. I own the Norinco tactical shotgun that is pretty much the poster child gun for complaints and negative comments about Chinese shotguns etc. I have owned it for years and it worked fine. Just recently it started to have a slight issue with it not loading a shell on the second pump. It was always the second pump. So I decided that it has been about 5 years with only small basic cleaning, maybe I should take it 100% apart and clean it to better than new condition. I did this last night and from everything I could see the thing was built very solid. I am sure that the issue will have been resolved (tub mag was mega dirty and gritty. Other than that it has been a great shotgun to me. I used to use it as an example to people when I would tell them I had a norinco. The thing is built like a tank. Plus the fit and finish is nicer than lots of American guns. My friends father has a true ithica model 37 and it is nicer I will give it that, but not by much, just the internals are smoother. Maybe mine is an exception to the rule but just thought I would put it out there. Really though for $200 don't expect the unexpected. It might be a little rough around the edges. The answer to that is take it apart and polish it up if you have to.
 
martnuk said:
It's hard to fault a consumer if they see quality in an 870 clone that saved them a $100.00
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i wouldnt buy a Chinese 870 clone if the only incentive was that it was $100 cheaper than an 870 Express.

you also need to consider that they often give you added features such as ghost rings, short barrels, mag fed, etc. on top of being $100 less.
 
I own several of both and fail to see a difference in quality.
$300, ghost ring sights, 12.5" barrel with chokes, hundreds of trouble free rounds...

I would get a new gunsmith who can give me the straight goods.
 
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